TOSLink Issues

[matthewk]

@Jonathan_Gullman

The only way to know if an HDMI audio extractor will work well is to simply try it. On paper, they should all be good. In practice, it’s a very different story. I went through 3 of them at home years ago before giving up. I brought them into the office and measured the output, and we were shocked at how terrible they were. It seems these more advanced ones at least have 48kHz at the right frequency instead of wandering.

I never found one that really worked right. Apple TV to WiiM (SPDIF) to Cascade via AirPlay works great.

[Raphael]

@Jonathan_Gullman

At home I use the toslink output of my Samsung TV and it’s been 100% for years.

Hi Jonathan,

Did you mean the toslink connection between your TV and DAC is totally satisfactory?

If yes, then I will hold up the plan for an Apple Music compatible streamer, and wait for the upcoming Apple TV, which might support hi-res Apple Music.

(Would you please also let me know the brand of your toslink cable?)

Thanks!

[Bones13]

In my old house, I had a Sony TV that worked perfectly with the TOSLink input to the MSB Premier, before, and after Digital Director.

New House, new Samsung TV, had issues with TOSLink. TV replaced with new, different model, Samsung TV. Works fine now. There are usually 2 short hiccups when I start a new stream, then the content flows fine. I attribute that to switching between different audio formats.

AppleTV + Oppo (via HDMI) → TV → MSB (via TOSLink)

[Jonathan_Gullman]

To be clear, the Toslink is totally satisfactory for tv/movie watching. I don’t play music through it. It won’t be native even if connected to the Apple TV via HDMI.

The important thing is the output is stable, doesn’t have dropouts, or a wandering lip-sync error. Many of the HDMI to Toslink digital output adapters had dropouts, wandering lip-sync error, and general instability all at the same time.

[Raphael]

@Jonathan_Gullman

I don’t play music through it. It won’t be native even if connected to the Apple TV via HDMI.

Thanks Jonathan. This is the main concern.

I will stick to the original plan for a streamer.

[Battles]

Hi Jonathan,

I’m using an Orei HDMI/digital output extractor, and its toslink output works flawlessly into my Meridian 818v3 DAC. There are no dropouts whatsoever. However, with the same Orei extractor, the toslink output of the Cascade DD, regardless of whether it’s in video mode or not, is unusable. Dropouts occur every 5-10 seconds. In other words, there must be something different about the implementation of the Cascade’s toslink input that makes it much more “picky.” Since there are likely very few Cascade owners who are using its Toslink input, and you therefore likely have limited owner feedback on it, it likely makes sense for the MSB engineers to confirm that there isn’t a potential firmware issue that could be causing the toslink dropouts.

Separately, can you or Dustin please describe the lengths to which the digital coax input on the Cascade DD is isolated when not in use? If this input were connected to a noisy digital source that was connected to a network switch and/or signal cable tied into an ISP’s public network, is it physically possible that noise could enter this input even when this input is not in use? I have an OCD habit of always disconnecting this input when it’s not in use, but I’d much prefer to forgo this hassle if my concern is 100% unfounded.

Thanks,

Blake

[Jonathan_Gullman]

I assume the dropouts are a tick or is it silent for an extended period?

The HDMI audio extractors have notoriously bad digital outputs. Since our S/PDIF receiver is an analog-based receiver (higher quality and lower noise than pure digital), they tend to be more sensitive to out-of-spec digital sources.

If you are running to a TV, does your TV have a digital output? Have you tried a different HDMI audio extractor?

As far as coaxial isolation, it’s done via a transformer. Since you have a Cascade, I would be shocked if you can tell a difference if it’s plugged in or not when listening to another source.

[Bones13]

I ended up with the decision that the new Samsung TOSLink out was my culprit. 2 different ones. The second one is fairly predictable: every time a new stream is started (AppleTV TV MSB Premier DD) produced 2-3 dropouts. These were 1-3 seconds of no sound. I’m guessing that somewhere in the sound format change, but that is pure speculation. The first one had random dropouts. I tried the HDMI-TOSLink converter, but had un-fixable video/sound coordination.

I was just living with it, until recently, I got a good deal on a different device that accepts HDMI ARC, and outputs analog, which I feed to my pre-amp. All is good. I liked the Samsung OLED too much to give it up. If I had gone with Sony, it probably would have been all good.

[Battles]

Hi Jonathan – Happy New Year!

Sorry for the slow reply. The holidays took me off the grid for a few weeks. Yes, you are correct. The cheap HDMI extractors off Amazon do not do the job. They are useless when paired with the Toslink input or the Cascade DD. Per your suggestion, I purchased an AVPro off EBAY that works much better. It still has occasional drop outs, but they are infrequent, and not that disruptive to dialogue. I have not tried the coaxial output from the AV Pro into the Cascade. I suspect it is better than Toslink, however, I prefer Toslink because I want to ensure any noise between the AV Pro and Cascade is isolated when l’m listening to the “audiophile inputs” of the Cascade DD.

Best,

Blake