What is the longest XLR run (Cascade to M500amps) you have experaince with and was there anything negative other than the price?
XLR by its very nature is designed for long runs in VERY noisy conditions. Think concert venues. You’ll likely be looking over 100ft before it’s a consideration at 3+ volts of output from the cascade.
That said I’m a dummy and I’m sure someone far smarter will have first hand experience.
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I had XLR about 22’ long (Iconoclast) without any issues from DAC to Amp, then I went for STEALTH Sakra V17, that are crazy expensive. So I moved the DAC on the front wall rack. Big improvement (due to the type of cable, of course).
Still have the long Iconoclast XLRs from Pre Phono to DAC.
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Sadly an 30ft AudioQuest Dragon XLR is a fair amount of $, which I rather spend on something more enjoyable (like an Aurender N30) but esthetics are a critical part of life
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Hi Peter,
FWIW, I’m just spit-balling here… that the problem is there is no room in your current rack for the Cascade after you switch to M500s and maybe a different streamer.
For much less than the cost of a pair of 30ft Dragons could have a new custom rack built. If you placed the Cascade components horizontally your new rack it would be less than 10” higher (including room for airflow) than current one. And your new rack could have whatever the aesthetic you want.
My guess is that a pair of 30ft Dragons would be at least in the $70K range. I’m pretty sure a bespoke rack would be much less than that.
Also, even though XLRs are regularly used in lengths over a 100ft, I can’t help but believe that 30ft XLRs, whoever made them, would have a noticeable effect on a system as highly resolving as yours is now… and if you move to M500s and big daddy Estelons your system will become even more resolving.
All this is just some speculation on my part.
Dan
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Alas @Dan you are correct, I am already assuming the N50 (if I get one) will go in the basement but that is fine as I can run the AOC to behind the Cascade, a new custom rack will be ordered and it works (barely) as it’s 51” high with the shoe compartment and the top needs to remain open so we can put the tray there when we eat outside, but this is only an option if I stick to a single 7000, if the recommended approach is dual 7000’s then I run out of vertical space and need to look for another option.
Visio-m500 config.pdf (31.7 KB)
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Hi Peter,
Sounds like a rock and a hard place problem. My guess is that you will want two 20A circuits for the M500s.
Another guess. I know somewhere @Daniel_Francis ??(I think) mentioned that the MSB listening room plugs their amps directly into the wall socket and skips any power conditioning. So, if that works, you could just add a couple of 20A circuits for the M500s and just have all your other equipment plugged into the 7000.
BTW, the 7000 does not do as much filtering on the high power outlets as it does on the other, and the high power outlets do not go through an isolation transformers. I used @Vince_Galbo recommended line noise meter and the I could see that the high power outlets had more noise on them than the others, which had almost no noise.
So if you plug your M500s directly into the wall (maybe add a surge protector) you rnew rack will have room for the Cascade.
One way or another I’m sure you will get it all working though. The M500s are outstanding.
Dan
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@Dan so make my electrician happy dual 208/20A for the M500’s using schuko sockets so nobody mistakes them for 120) with no conditioner and a 120/20A via a 7000 for the Cascade?
Hmmmm, makes me wonder if I can’t take one of my spare 3000’s for the Cascade instead or do something very different. Have the M500’s pluggect into a 7000 but rather than run dragons to the amp, run 8gauge from the 7000 to the wall plug and then dragon from the plug, ie conditioner to 8gauge high voltage wire to socket to dragon that way my 7000’s are 30ft away but all electronics are local
That rack looks like it will be very cool looking! My rack is horizontal and I wish it could be vertical like yours, but the TV prevents that.
Dan
Last week at the Dutch Audio Show we had the source and director from the cascade on the left and the dac part with power supply and amp in the front between the speakers. ( ok it was a show and we did’t use the S500 but Pilium pre/power) The long fiber doesn’t affect the sound quality and would cost less than 50€ for 15m … only if you have analog sources it would require moving a lot.
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Moving just the analog converter and powerbase near the M500s is ideal. If you have one or less analog source its better to put that on the long XLR cables because it will be full level, not already attenuated (volume controlled). The long fiber cable from the director is great, it is designed to be long with no quality degredation.
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alas in my case it’s either esthetics or I move the cascade to be 50ft away and the speakers near the M500’s with 50ft XLR or I move everything with 50ft speaker cables or I move the power and run 50ft 8Gauge Romex extension cables 208v to the Amps and the Cascade (7000 or dedicated 5000’s per amp and 7 for the cascade
From my point of view here is the order of cable importance with respect to length, most important to least important.
Most important to keep shorter:
Low level analog interconnects (phono cables)
Speaker cables
Single ended cables
XLR from the amplifier to a DAC or preamp
Source XLR cables
Digital audio cables
Power (in wall or out of wall)
Network cables
Fiber cables (Cascade link, ProISL, Fiber Network,ect…)
Least important for length:
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@Dan is right, we plug our amps directly into the wall. We also have power conditioning happen before entering the sound room.
You could always have the Niagra’s 50ft away and run heavy guage power cables to the amplifiers??
@Daniel_Francis what conditioners to you use? And @Dan that is one of my options, a sub panel running 3 dedicated 240/20’s each into a dedicated niagra, with the 2 5000’s each feeding a M500 and the 7000 feeding the Cascade. I would wire it so I can start without the Niagra’s and add them later
No conditioners at the moment for the M500’s, but we have used a large isolation transformer to feed a set of outlets in our subpanel. With 300+ solar inverters on our roof, the isolation transformer has helped only slightly. This is not the approach I would recomend.
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Ahh, so my whole house UPS might be overkill
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