Has anyone compared dedicated 240 circuits (using @Vince_Galbo technique) direct to the components against the same configuration but running through a niagra 7000?
The issue I am facing is the connection between the Niagara and the electronics will be a short custom dragon to a wall plug then 8gauge Romex to another wall plug and another custom dragon to the electronics.
If I skip the Niagara then it’s a normal 240v outlet going straight to the panel. @Dan@Vince_Galbo and @Dustin_Symanski please give me your thoughts
I should add, my wife vetoed the rack gaining 10” in height, she also vetoed me installing a dedicated AC for the electronics (the room under the stairs, which to be honest is cramped and not really wide enough) which means my options are getting limited, she did hint I could just leave the electronics as is and limit myself to new speakers but I am afraid of the M205/Forza combo as they are very low impedance speakers
I haven’t done that comparison. I had already wired my listening room before @Vince_Galbo had published his paper.
For my Cascade based system I have three, 120V #12 wire dedicated runs for amps and other equipment, i.e. a standard 20A dedicated circuits. Each amp is on a separate circuit. Originally I had Clarus power conditioners for each amp and the amps at that time were McIntosh MC901s. When I switched to 7000s for each amp my audio performance improved, particularly for imaging.
I’m using the same configuration now for my M500s but with different speakers.
@Battles was very successful in improving his audio by using the @Vince_Galbo technique. Here are his results
A system is the aggregation of its components, each component having some effect on other components . It’s hard, maybe impossible, to predict the difference between two 7000s plus 50ft of XLR, and no 7000s and 6 feet of XLR.
Recording studios often use XLR runs much longer than 50ft. Of course they are careful how they run it and a line buffer amp might be used on the mic. XLR by design is good rejecting common mode noise, but not all noise, and is not perfect. Under the right “wrong” conditions XLR can pickup noise/distortion.
If I were doing everything again from scratch I would use the @Vince_Galbo technique with the amps pugged directly into the wall (for me I would add a surge suppressor). Then if I thought that things just were not good enough I would add 7000s.
And just put one more fly in the ointment… noise/distortion in highly resolving audio systems is very tricky. Adding a 7000 could make things worse… you can’t know for sure until you try it.
So the 7000 amp sounded a bit better but I have had a setback
I would normally upgrade the power, then the amps, then the speakers that way I know they sound as good as they can but that requires me to increase the rack height and my wife said no to that (at least temporarily, as the proportions will be all wrong) soooo the result will be speaker upgrade then decide what comes next, likely the M500 but the config will depend on if I can increase the rack height.
So now I relax and enjoy, next year it’s Forza vs Extreme decision time
If you didn’t do your testing with the M500 you don’t really know how it will will behave in your test setup. All components interact with each other. Both @Dustin_Symanski and @Daniel_Francis have mentioned that the M500 is not just a supercharged M202, it is a different amp.
Your speakers on the M500s will sound better than they do on M202s (IMHO of course). Along those lines my guess is that the M500 will do a better job of managing the noise from your power service than the M202 does (think of the added capacitance in the design as a builtin 7000 ). You might find that with the M500 you can put off getting big daddy Estelons. Unless you have a really big room the regular size Estelons are the aesthetic choice.
Power-wise M202s would have been plenty for my system. But after @Daniel_Francis told me that the M500 is a different, more advanced design than the M202, I decided to get the M500s.
I don’t claim special knowledge about audio, but my system never fails to wow, whether my guests are audiophiles or not. I have a friend who has recording engineer and technical producer credits on a number of grammy award winning, multi platinum albums who says my system is one of the best he has ever heard (I credit that to Cascade + M500, again IMHO).
Anyhow, good luck on your quest… I sure you will end up with a system that is both outstanding and aesthetic.
@Dan I think you mean the M205 not the M202, but I know the M500 will be MUCH better and I will be getting them, that I already know it’s now just not in the sequence I was planning.
The only question in my mind is am I keeping the 7000 in the chain, but my thinking (and my wife has hinted at it) i that I will be allowed to raise the rack once I have taller speakers. Otherwise the M500’s will each get a dedicated 240/20A circuits and I will leave the Cascade on the existing dedicated 120/20A (unless @Dustin_Symanski tells me it will be happier on a 240 in which case it gets one as well) but if she says I can raise it then I might run everything through a 7000 (240/20A version of course).
So at the end of the day (in a year or 2 depending on budget and so on) I will still end up with the M500’s and a speaker upgrade.
I dont see how I can loose the reality is dispite all the dealers that try to talk me out of the M500’s I am NOT budging, MSB as a company has been there for me every step of the way and I am certain they will remain there whenever I need them @Vince_Galbo@Daniel_Francis@Dustin_Symanski you guys are simply great to deal with and I will happily remain your loyal customer for as long as my hearing holds
I don’t run a power conditioner on my s500. My feeling is given the size of the MSB transformer they are using for converting AC/DC as well as the quantity of capacitors for storage and filtering only minimal gains will come from any kind of filter.
If you feel compelled to use something, take a look at the Shunyata Denali 2000. They are very small towers with only two outlets on the back, pretty easy to put one next to each amp. I have a Shunyata Everest 8000 for my signal electronics which I am quite happy with until I can move to a Stromtank.
Power conditioning is not universal. What helps in one system doesn’t always help in another. Therefore, it’s impossible to say that, “Yes, you need it” or “No, you don’t” even at 240V.
Generally, it can help, but I’ve heard a lot of people say they still prefer the amps directly into the wall. The only way to know is to try it and know what is better for your system in your location.