My understanding is that the Discrete and Premier DACs, with their digital volume, sound their absolute best as close to 100 as possible.
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This is very true. However it needs to be understood in context, as explained in this other thread: Digital volume control on Premier.
I freely admit that I have no background in electrical engineering or any other discipline that would qualify me to give an authoritative opinion on the subject, but take a look at this particular response: https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/digital-volume-control-on-premier/900/18?u=bthartman.
I’m pretty agnostic about many of the “hot button” topics in audio forums (e.g., expensive cables, power conditioners, high resolution files vs “redbook”). My bottom line is if I’m curious whether something will make a difference I try it and decide whether it works for me. I determined that analog interconnects and speaker cables do make a difference - for me. And that expensive power cables don’t make a perceptible difference - for me. And in my case, with my Discrete going directly into my McIntosh MC462 I don’t hear a perceptible sq difference between 70 or so and somewhere in the 80’s for volume setting. But again, this is for me, in my system and my aging ears (with, alas, hearing aids). But YMMV.
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Another thought occurred to me after comments about the digital volume control on the Discrete and Premier - has anyone tried a passive preamp, and if so what was your experience?
@Daniel_Francis
When you say that “the biggest factor here is not which preamp works well with the DAC, but which preamp works well with the amp.” Indeed it may be true. The way to circumvene this issue is to introduce a Trinnov between them to perform the room correction (and in my case the 3way filtering of my active speakers.
More generally, the introduction of a preamp in my system has rendered the sound simply more “human”.
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As an advocate of active crossover speakers I applaud your approach. However, adding an additional analog-to-digital, DSP, and digital-analog conversion stages AFTER the MSB DAC has done its thing seems a bit counterintuitive. That’s why I use analog active crossovers after my MSB DAC and more traditional acoustic room treatments.
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@drajreynolds
Being a telecom engineer by formation, having studied signal processing during my early studies, I was convinced that inserting ADC and DAC conversions on the signal path would be indeed quite destructive, but they are not at all. And I have an LP as one of the sources to the preamp, which SQ beats any other digital source. Most likely because the Trinnov performs a room correction which improves lots of room reflections and due to the extreme well optimized filtering curve of the active speakers.
To the point that I have inserted Trinnov processors in each of my three systems between the preamp or HC processor and the amplification stage, all in class D:
a Magnitude in the living room main system,
an MC Pro in the home cinema (the main F/L speakers only are active) and
an ST2 Pro in another location where it drives a stereo active system.
Never forget that the room counts for a very significant chunk of the SQ.
I cannot conceive anymore a sound reproduction system without a Trinnov processor (for clarity : I’m not affiliated or linked by any means to the brand). The French founders are all excellent mathematicians, and they are quite good in signal processing.
MSB and Trinnov are my two favourite HiFi brands because of the unbelievable improvement their products bring to SQ.
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Swen from Horn Solutions is a huge advocate of the DEQX pre 8 as digital active crossover for his three way horn speakers, including time/phase optimisation. He has just finished his statement turntable and doesn’t see the ADC/DAC process as detrimental to its performance. Thus, your experience accords with his.
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A couple of members in this thread have mentioned DRC - digital room correction. I use this in my system too and “preach” it to my audio buddies whenever they are interested. It’s IMHO the single most important component in my (or, arguably, any) system because the room is the single biggest factor impacting how our systems sound… without DRC, no other piece of equipment can perform at its maximum potential because the room simply overwhelms anything that equipment can bring to the table. I should qualify my statement somewhat for those who have well-proportioned, symmetrical, dedicated listening rooms and/or can add serious room treatments. But even in these cases, I would suggest there’s a role for DRC to play…. if nothing but to squeeze those last little drops of performance from your system in your room.
In my experience with two different listening rooms (neither one of them dedicated nor symmetric, and with minimal room panels), DRC has made all the difference between my system sounding clear, uniform, articulate, engaging, balanced - versus the opposite without DRC. With DRC engaged, I can listen with pleasure… and evaluate different equipment with confidence.
Of course, there are many different possible implementations of DRC. I heard a compelling demonstration at a recent Audiophile Foundation event of tuning using REW and its EQ filters - I’ve tried this in the past in my systems too. I’ve also personally used Dirac which is powerful and easy but definitely has its limitations (eg, it cannot adjust phase at least in the bass where it can matter most). Most recently, I engaged with Mitch Barnett to provide a digital convolution file that plugs into Roon. My filter is generated by a program called Audiolense, which can also correct for phase mismatches between speakers (in addition to frequency-time alignment). This has been the “ultimate” solution for my system. Why? My room and speaker placements are asymmetric out of necessity, which creates unavoidable phase mismatches between the speakers. These mismatches mean that the bass (produced by both speakers working at the same time) can never be smooth, since the speakers are fighting with each other due to phase mismatches. Audiolense aligns their individual bass responses so that the resulting response with both speakers playing at the same time is smooth. Of course, it allows me to use target curves to create the “sound” I prefer… my preference is essentially a modified harman curve.
Just my two cents… hopefully it’s useful to some members. I’m happy to expound further or answer questions.
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