Reference DAC+DD compared with Cascade

Recently I plan to buy a new reference DAC. It really sounds great to me. I know the next step to upgrade is to add a reference DD. I’m wondering if it worth to add $16000 and go from reference DAC+DD($79000) directly up to Cascade($95000)? Since one is discontinued and one is the latest model.
Another question is if I choose to use Cascade as preamp, is there bypass function so I could integrate it with my surround processor?
Hope to hear your opinion. Thank’s.

Hi Timothy,

I can’t speak to comparing the Cascade to the Reference because I’ve never heard the reference.

But the Cascade as a DAC is amazing. Everyone who comes to my house to listen to it agrees it is amazing. Some of my audiophile friends thought I was crazy buying the Cascade because they didn’t see how it could possibly improve my, already, very good system. Once they heard it they couldn’t believe their ears at how good it was. Detail, sound stage, quietness were all amp’d up.

One of the other things I found is that the Cascade as a line level preamp with only a volume control is completely transparent. I don’t think you could find a better preamp for this kind of application.

I use the Cascade to integrate my stereo system with my surround system. The analog inputs on the Cascade can be set to pass-through or have the volume be controlled by the Cascade.

So, yes, you can easily integrate your surround system. I have my MX180 AVP on one of the Cascade analog inputs, and the output of my MP1100 phono preamp (which does not have a volume control) on the other. The MX180 input is set to pass-through and the MP1100 input is controlled by the Cascade column control.

In the end the Cascade was so good it pushed me to upgrade other components in my system.

Dan

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at this price difference, the $16,000 you mentioned, I think it’s a no-brainer. More and better DAC modules / better clock / more analog input / bigger screen. It needed to be double price from Reference to Select and now you can upgrade to Cascade which is better than Select with “only” 16,000 extra :laughing:

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Thank you Dan for your experience sharing. My dealer told me he had no customer use reference or Select DAC as preamp. Everybody use only the DAC’s function. Would you share with me why you choose to use Cascade as preamp? Besides the transparency you mentioned, is there any other pros and cons? I’m using MBL pre and power amp. I’m afraid if I use DAC preamp, maybe I’ll lost some golden coloration of MBL.
I’ll keep close watching of you road of upgrade.:blush:

Thank you dodger0629. As you said, reference and Cascade are from different generation. That’s my biggest concern too. I hope the company will launch new gen of Reference series for more affordable price.:joy:

Hi Timothy,

The Cascade is the best DAC that MBS has made both terms of measurements and listening tests. @Daniel_Gullman has mentioned this in a number of places.

There is a follow on DAC in development that is supposed to be even better than the Cascade. It is called the Sentinel DAC. I know that there are a number of purchasers who will trade their Cascade for a Sentinel the moment it comes out. There will be a new Sentinel amplifier too.

There are a number of reasons I use the Cascade as a preamp.

First of all it means there will be less “things” in the digital audio signal path because the Cascade will be connected directly to the amplifier instead of going through a preamplifier. It also means less cables too. No matter how good a preamp or cables might be, eliminating them will be better.

The preamp in the Cascade is a different design and better than the older MSB DACs. (@Daniel_Gullman has mentioned this). It is, basically, a passive, constant output impedance volume control.

It does have active buffer amplification on the inputs, but it is a high quality buffer. (I’m pretty sure all preamps have some kind of active buffer on their inputs). In other words, at least from what can tell… I have no inside knowledge, the preamp was not added to fill a checkbox, it was designed to be an hifi preamp.

The Cascade has 2 XLR and 2 RCA inputs, which is more than I needed. It does not have a moving coil cartridge input, that is why I have the MP1100. It also has no tone or equalizer controls… which is fine with me. :grinning: The inputs are managed to prevent any noise from them when that are not selected (though I think a number of other preamps do this too)

You’ve mentioned the coloration your MBL adds to the signal. As far as I can tell the Cascade DAC preamp adds no coloration at all, it is quite transparent. This is neither good nor bad, just a matter of choice.

Dan

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This may sound overstated. The change for me going from reference dac and director was a big surprise of how much better. First track played was a ( is this really this good?) moment. I was worried about the very large spend ( what am I thinking spending so much?) After some ownership time now i am still very impressed with the improvements. Decay, clarity, image refinement on tracks I have heard many times.

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@Dan Thanks again for your detailed explination. It makes me more confident about MSB DAC’s preamp.
@Bcurtis Thanks for your sharing. Do you use MSB DAC as preamp too?

I have a Vinnie Rossi Brama integrated . I don’t have experience using the preamp from Cascade. Might be something to try.