But a question specifically for current or past owners of the MSB Reference DAC and the Digital Director. How much of an improvement would the pairing of the Digital Director bring to the table?
And if anyone has had the Reference+DD in the past but has now moved to the Cascade (which I did have the pleasure to demo in my system for about 10 days back in the summer so I know what it can do), how far would the Reference+DD still be (in your opinion) compared to the Cascade?
Should I expect a similar improvement to the one I have experienced when adding the PRO USB ISL module and fibre cable to the DAC or considerably more?
Ah, well, my thoughts then! Unlike many improvements in a system, adding a DD is a bigger shift then most incremental upgrades. Instead of just better performance through quality, you are adding new features and technology. Better digital filters which are more advanced then what is in your Reference DAC. Another stage of isolation for the DAC’s performance, like the Pro USB but on steroids. The difference is much greater than say that of the Pro USB, because you are fundamentally changing the entire product layout. When I first heard our prototype DD, the amount of new information I was able to hear was astounding and made going back without it was very difficult. If your system can reveal it, its a wonderful next step! Food for thought.
I was thinking that in future we’re probably going to double the ProISL fiber connections in one way or another. Let me explain.
Adding a DD or (the lucky ones) a Cascade, there is a first ProISL path between two MSB chassis, this is the most crucial part I suppose.
But Taiko, Innuos, Pink Faun, Antipodes and hopefully many other server manufacturers are working hard to realize new output modules on their devices able to provide a second ProISL path between them and the MSB DD.
This is the future. Does this double isolation make a really significant difference?
In my case, for instance, I’m going to experience soon that kind of double ProISL connection, because once my DD arrives I’ll have to keep it connected via USB Pro to the Innuos Statement, having the latter 7 mt far away in a different rack on the side wall.
If I remember well you said, it’s like putting a hat on the hat!
I suppose it can be a bit like a hat on a hat, except that with high end audio… everything matters. At every stage of the system there are interactions that have to be managed. By adding a second layer of Pro ISL you are eliminating those interactions and reducing the amount of variables you will need to control. Please keep us posted with your new DD!
Hello - question:
Given the MSB Discrete DAC is JPLAY certified via ethernet, am I able to connect the Discrete DAC via Fiber using MSB ProISL module to my switch that also has a fiber port? If so, what’s the format of the fiber - multimode, etc.?
This would replace the USB module in the DAC, thereby improving isolation, etc. (benefits of FIBER). What are its limitations compared to USB?
Thanks,
Ian
The Pro ISL and Fiber network share the same physical SFP modules, but they do not share the same signaling at all. So you won’t hurt your DAC or network switch by interconnecting them they cannot understand each other, so nothing good will happen.
Thanks Dustin. In other words the Pro ISL is not a networkable interface, simply an alternative USB connection. I would think fiber network interface is an elegant solution eliminating dependency on USB and ethernet interfaces.
Is there a plan to implement a FIBER network interface?
Fiber network (or USB) is not a great solution for audio data compared to the Pro ISL. The Pro ISL is not an alternative to USB (or fiber Ethernet) it is vastly superior to it for audio data.
Imagine an Ethernet network as the Global Postal Service. Clients Send packages on it with labels designating the recipient. Inside each package is an invoice saying what the package contains. To send some data the sender gives the items to the shipping department. Then the shipping department puts everything in a box and creates an invoice and shipping label. Another employee drives to the post office and drops off the box. The box then goes into the system which reads the label and attempts to route it in various conveyances (trucks, airplanes, ships, etc…) until the delivery driver delivers it to the main office of the recipient. Then the shipping department there opens the box and compares the invoice, determines if they can use the contents and if anything is missing. If they needs something to complete the shipment they hold onto the box and write a letter to the sender. Then they wait for the second package to complete the first shipment. When that package is complete the staff sends the box to the factory floor where workers must determine what to do with all the widgets in the box. If there is some problem they need to tell the office staff to send a letter to the sender to rectify the problem. This must happen with each and every package. (USB is similar)
In contrast the Pro ISL is like a series of conveyor belts. Each belt is setup with sockets to hold a particular widget and an inbox to tell the staff what is on each belt. The office staff reads the setup information and comes up with a plan to connect each belt to the factories automated production lines. The employees then connect each belt to an automated line which deals with each type of widget and recycles any widgets the factory cannot use. Then a command is sent to start the conveyor belts. Widgets then roll into the factory in each socket and the factory equipment process each one in turn. The conveyor belt speed is determined by the factory, not the sender. The Pro ISL also has a dedicated conveyor belt that contains spare parts, so if the factory has an inspection station and finds a widget with a missing a part, it can grab that spare part from the spare part belt and assemble it onto the widget before it sends it down the line to the next process. This means there is very little overhead and the automated lines can run as smoothly as possible without the intervention of any staff, the conveyor belts can also be perfectly integrated with the factory. The only drawback is that the only way to stop the automated production line is to hit the emergency stop button and shut everything down then start over.
In real Ethernet implementations the office staff is a CPU running an operating system like LINIX. The postal network is the Ethernet hardware, cables and switches. The postal network is designed to send computer data and is not designed to transfer information in a timely manner. The network also always sends lots of junk mail. This needs processing even if no one wants to deal with it. The packages arrive when they arrive, which could be delayed by all sorts of events. The office workers have very little control over what they receive except to send mail back to the sender to try to convince them that the need more product or need replacement parts. In the end Ethernet is a terrible way to send audio data. It results in a lot of work at the recipients endpoint which results in a lot of generated electrical noise and the data needs huge buffers because it is not sure when the next huge data package will arrive. USB has all these drawbacks and more (only the sender has the ability to determine when the recipient can communicate with them, and the recipient has to drop everything and only pay attention to the sender when it “speaks” even when it is in the middle of another task). USB also has a very limited inspection station so it cannot efficiently determine whether the data it receives is correct or not.
Thanks Dustin for the lengthly and use of layman’s concepts in your response. I appreciate your time - you’ve got many more things to do than respond to my asks! If any follow-up is desired, I’ll ask Vince.
I’m going to receive my Reference DD in the very next few days and following your recommendation it will be placed far away from the MSB DAC and Amp.
Just ordered 8 meters long fiber and oprical wires, which hopefully will work well in this length.
