At present I can control the output level of Cascade from msbtech.local even when I am playing over ISL, for example from my Pink Faun, because I also have a Renderer.
What I would like to see added to Renderer is the ability to start/stop playback on whatever interface is being used for playback.
I would like this because then I can control both playback and level from my iPhone or my office computer. When I get I phone all I can stop playback and then resume it when the cal is done.
Also, I would like msbtech.local to display the same information the DD displays.
Also, I would like msbtech.local to give access to all the functions the remote gives me access to. This would eliminate all the complications of have to carry the remote around and an making an IR extender work.
A lot of contemporary electronics works this way. For example my Kaleidescape player has a remote, but it also can access all its functionality from a computer or iPhone. Of course that requires an iPhone app.
But a phone app isn’t necessary, my Trinnov AVP is accessible via the local network through an ip address. Even my old McIntosh MX180 AVP (ancient in electronics time) could be accessed over the local network via a web page.
The basic technology that is in Renderer could provide this interface.
Overall, it would be a great convenience as I wander from office to living room to ??? and just a much more contemporary interface for audio components.
I haven’t taken the time to do an analytical comparison.
When I first got the Pink Faun I did do an informal comparison (no notes, no trying to closely compare sound fragments) between Pink Faun via optical ISL and Pink Faun via Renderer. Pink Faun via ISL was the better of the two.
Since then I have tried Qobuz Direct via the Renderer. I found the playback inconsistent, i.e. a detail here and there would sound different each time the track was played. Also I sometimes heard some artifacts that I didn’t think should be there.
Again, the Qobuz direct was an informal listening session, but as soon as I noticed that there were inconsistencies in the playback I didn’t go any further.
This was just me listening to my system… your milage may vary. I don’t think anyone would find PF/ISL, PF/Renderer or Qobuz Direct unacceptable.
I seem to remember that a couple months ago, MSB indicated that its renderer sounds great and was accessible via network for programs like Roon, Audirvana, Qobuz Connect and local computer/NAS drive for local files playable with Roon/Audirvana…sort of suggesting that the extra cables to use with an external renderer was unnecessary. I assumed they meant in SQ as well as saving cables.
I understood a renderer is the hardware that takes the streamed/local music file bits and sends them to the DAC. MSB Cascade has a (optional) renderer, so I thought Pink Faun would not really be needed.
Although, I think you are saying that the Pink Faun renderer is better than the (optional) Cascade renderer. (total system relevant of course)
Qobuz Connect does sound great…you don’t need a Pink Faun to get great sound out of Cascade. But to me on my system Qobuz Connect is not up to the same level that Pink Faun/ISL is.
Assuming the rest of the system is high quality, anyone who buys a Cascade and uses Qobuz Connect with it will be over the moon about how good their system is.
Pink Faun isn’t a Renderer, it is a streamer that uses RAAT to send selected streams to an MSB Renderer module or ISL to send a streams to a MSB ISL module. Technically it is an implementation of a Roon Nucleus server.
Qobuz connect turns the MSB Renderer into a streamer… with a Qobuz app for its interface.
This is just me listening to my system… I’m not in the business of formally reviewing HiFi equipment.
all so confusing, especially when Pink Faun discusses its “renderer unit” and its internal storage which its operating system connects, as it does to connect/render an internet music stream to the DAC, thus a streamer, renderer, and local storage device. I understand Pink Faun’s operating system is the user interface to ‘see’ and select the music file internet stream and internal music files, thereby not needing Qobuz Connect, Audirvana, or Roon user interfaces. I suspect each of these music interfaces have different sound qualities/features. I understand a server refers to serving locally stored music files on the server.
I’m using a PSA AirLens as a streamer and renderer to send internet streamed music data to my DAC. It has no internal music file storage. While Qobuz Connect plays to the AirLens, it cannot access the storage on dedicated MacMini, Audirvana and Roon can as well as serve as the software function for user interface for the internet stream and local music files (like Qobuz Connect).
The whole server, client, streamer, music service is confusing to say the least.
Pink Faun requires a Roon subscription to use it because it embeds Roon server code in it.
When you use Pink Faun you use a Roon user interface. Even though Pink Faun embeds Roon Server, the key code that accesses the music service and sends streams to the DAC was written by Pink Faun.
Pink Faun started embedding Roon a couple of years ago. Before that it used a product called Euphony Stylus. You didn’t need Roon subscription then, but then you did need a subscription to Stylus and you used the Stylus interface to access music services.
Some DACs (and even speakers) are Roon Ready, like MSB DACs when the have a Renderer module in them. A Roon server, like Pink Faun can send streams to Roon Ready devices.
Some streamers are Roon Ready too, which means a Roon Server can stream music to them. For example, the streamers from Aurender and Rose Audio are Roon Ready. A Roon ready streamer does not embed any Roon server code.
And some DACs are Roon Tested, which means that a Roon Server, like Pink Faun can stream to them via, for example, USB.
So a Pink Faun could stream to an Aurender streamer.
So, yes, streamers, especially once Roon is part of the equation, are very confusing.
Pink Faun OS is just a lean version of Linux (based on the minimalist Arch Linux, as far as I know) with the sole purpose of running Roon Server (aka Roon Core) - and letting you manage some hardware settings. Hence, Roon is the server and player software when using Pink Faun hardware.
However, a music stream can be sent from the Pink Faun (2.16 ultra) to a DAC in different ways. One way is using Roon to stream to any Roon Ready device on the network (via the same ethernet connection via which the Pink Faun receives data, e.g. from Qobuz or Tidal). This way, Roon on the Pink Faun can stream to the MSB Network Renderer V2 input board.
Most Pink Faun buyers, however, prefer streaming via an ouput bridge installed in the Pink Faun, with a cable connection to the corresponding input module on the DAC. Formerly, the PF could be connected via USB or I2S (HDMI), but with the recent introduction of the Pro ISL bridge (available for the 2.16 ultra), PF and MSB worked towards creating a galvanically isolated optical cable connection (clocked by the DAC) specifically designed for the use with both products.
So I guess most users owning a 2.16 ultra will now opt for this solution, as apparently did @Dan
And @akro to make it even more muddy, in addition to the SQ debate there is the UI debate and the native app vs connect debate and that is completely ignoring the budget aspect!
The reality is (IMHO) you have to find a combination that you like. I as an example don’t like the Roon recomendation engine (in this aspect I think Spotify is the hands down winner) but I dont like the Spotify SQ so I bounce between Tidal via Roon and Qobuz Connect but I am waiting for renderer v3 before buying my next transport (either Aurender N50 or Pink Faun Ultra) as they both support the Pro ISL interface which is a requirement in my situation
@akro ok new thread needed as this is yet another aspect, to me it looks like a recomendation engine/transport based on Qobuz, which does indeed seem like several improvements now where is my Tidal support
