Today I have a Roon Nucleus Rev B upgraded to 16gb ram. It works but I am getting the itch to change things up and this is the most logical thing to mess with at this point. I don’t really store music, only stream Qobuz and sometimes Tidal if something I am looking for isn’t on Qobuz. The path is from Roon via the Renderer v2 module in my Cascade. What am I missing here, is there a better? I have 8” of space so a Aurender N50 is out and form beats function here. I like the idea of the Pink Faun ProISL compatibility, but it’s not going to work with the Scion and I can’t get my head around $35k for a Roon Core. I am happy with Roon, but also not opposed to ditching it all together if that’s the only want to whatever is next. It seems that even with the ProISL USB isn’t an ideal connection? Is a streamer only with I2S connectivity a better option?
Totally happy to listen to the group think here. Thanks!
Pink Faun Ultra has Roon Core built in so, assuming you’re ok with the Roon interface, you can continue to use the same Roon client.
I have one on order with the ProISL (i.e. fiber, not HDMI cable) interface. I think the height is about 6”, but I won’t know for sure until it arrives… height isn’t a limiting factor for me.
I currently have a Roon Nucleus Titan with ProUSB with an AOC fiber cable (which improved the sound, esp. the imaging) and it works great. ProUSB uses a ProISL (i.e. connect via fiber) module in the Cascade. I will use that ProISL module to connect directly to the Pink Faun fiber ISL interface via fiberand replace the Titan.
I’ve seen positive feedback about the Pink Faun in general and it’s design makes a lot of sense to me (YMMV), but the fiber ISL for MSB DACs is brand new for Pink Faun so no one in the “consumer wild” has heard it yet. In fact I’m fairly sure Pink Faun hasn’t shipped one yet.
But I did the same thing on the Cascade, I ordered it before the first one shipped… and things worked out so much better than I could have imagined.
I think there is a lot of similarity between MSB and Pink Faun in their development and manufacturing philosphies.
If one is using a Reference/Select Digital Director with a Reference/Select DAC (or the Cascade or Sentinel which includes a Digital Director by design) then I struggle to understand how a different music server could or should make any sonic difference.
If absolute fidelity to the recording is the goal, and assuming complete galvanic noise isolation of the Pro-ISL connection (between DD and analog converter boxes) and that a music server can deliver packets of bit-perfect data to the Renderer module, who cares if the upstream computer or network is electrically noisy compared to extremely expensive alternatives?
I would suggest that the same money spent on the analog side of the playback equation would yield significantly higher sonic returns. For example, appropriate deployment of acoustic treatments to remove more of the room’s sonic influence. Or maybe better engineered and built loudspeakers. Or cleaner power delivery to analog components via a balanced transformer. Or more effective isolation from building resonance for the analog converter (DAC) box which contains the sensitive clock. Or even a more optimal placement of loudspeakers and primary listening position.
All good points. I have the Cascade, S500 and Magico S5 2024. Not much more I can do there until Magico releases new M-Series speaker models and I make the switch to MSB m500 amps. No need to make the amp change now with the s500 amp.
My listening area shares the space with the living room so non-invasive acoustic treatment efforts are underway. You make a good point about the power. I live in an old part of town and power noise/fluctuations are a reality. A Stromtank is on the list of to-do’s maybe I will accelerate that one.
Of course, you may be correct, that using a Pink Faun or another high end streamer might not improve a system. But I know of a number of people who noted an improvement in their audio system when a Pink Faun Ultra replaced the streamer they were using.
With highly resolving systems the smallest bits of noise can become noticeable. BTW, at least to me, noise is anything that corrupts the signal, including clock jitter/skew in a digital circuits or phase jitter/skew in an analog circuit.
Fiber is better than copper at rejecting EMI, but it is just as capable as copper at transmitting noise between devices. Fiber has a very high bandwidth and can and is sometimes used to transmit analog signals.The fiber (or copper) cable is driven by an electronic circuit that can pick up noise in the sending device and transmit it and then “leak” into the receiving device.
So making the sending device as quiet as possible is important, and that is what Pink Faun and a number of other high end streamers attempt to do.
In the end, only your ears can tell if that attempt pays off. I hope it does . Actually I’m pretty sure it will.
Even a different cable used with the PSU powering my switch matters in my system, unfortunately. And I’m using both the DD and the Pro USB fiber connections.
I’m not going to make a comment as to what server to get, but here are a few things to think about.
If you give up Roon, you won’t be able to use the Renderer. You should either get a server with a ProISL output or get the ProUSB solution. Both are great.
If you want to give up Roon, the only options I’ve personally used is Aurender and Innous. I have the Aurender with ProUSB at home and as both my wife and I like the user interface.
I know Antipodes is partial Roon. They use Roon as the interface but replace the output with Squeeze. This seems to work well and I’ve heard many good things.
The last thing I’ll leave you with is with is make sure you like the user interface. If you hate using your server user interface, you won’t enjoy your listening.
Thanks @Jonathan_Gullman! This is very helpful. One thing that struck me during the firmware update last night - if the update requires “bit perfect" for it to update. What’s the difference in sound once you’re getting bit perfect to the renderer between one server or another? It seems that the update requires each and every bit to arrive at the render module exactly as it is in the source. Is it even possible for there to be a difference?
I have an Antipodes Audio K50 G3 (running AMS V4.4.0). Before upgrading from the Reference to the Cascade, I used it in Squeeze (Player) + Roon (server) mode based on forums recommendations with my former REF DAC+ DD.
When I tested the dealer’s Cascade, I realised that I could not read DSD files when streaming on Qobuz. Squeeze would convert them into 24/176 (or maybe 24/192…). When I bought my Cascade I tried Roon (Player) + Roon (server) on the K50, and I could read DSD 64 and DSD 128 files from my local hard disk.
Roon player was capable to read up to DSD 512 according to the configuration, even if I have no such files on the K50 hard disk or easily available on Qobuz. But after about two weeks, I confess that I found the sound a bit boring too rounded, not sharp or detailed enough with Roon+Roon. So I reconfigured the K50 back to Squeeze + Roon : great, much better to my taste.
The server is definitely important but the player can influence the sound reproduction as well.
And reading DSD files did not convince me the this format is muc better than the red book or its upsampled versions. Happy with my present configuration, IMHO best of both worlds : Roon has a fantastic interface, Squeeze is an excellent player, Antipodes have superb HW servers.
Neither of the two that you mentionned. I bought an MSB I2S input card. The K50 is connected via I2S through a Very good HDMI (silver conductor from Audiolund) : it is excellent. I tried also via XLR : also very good.
Thanks again for the thoughts. I have an Aurender N20 inbound. I’ll try both the AES and ProISL connections, compared to the Nucleus via the renderer V2. More to come.
I most certainly will. Thinking about trying a Grimm MU1 too, but it seems with the Grimm, the real benefit of their solution comes from the AES output and something about it taking over the clock in the DAC? That doesn’t seem right to me. We shall see.
. Actually I’m pretty sure it will.