Renderer vN feature requests

General
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This is Wishlist and not sure about some items but i figured the people on this forum represent some of the more devoted MSB users soooo

  1. Native TIDAL connect support
  2. Native Spotify support (at this time for my wife, when Spotify does high res for both of us)
  3. if and only if there is no impact to the sound quality some REALLY good room correction (separate module/separate component/integrated/…)

The above + what v2 does means i will never by a transport as sonically i find the renderer matches or outperforms most transports Roon covers my library so its just minor features that are nice to have + room correction.

Now everyone please add your thoughts

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I like the NAA addition suggested elsewhere.

I would like to see an SFP cage to allow either copper or optical network connections.

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I would rather MSB did not add a user programable DSPs to their DACs (or anything else). There are a lot of ways to do DSP outside of MSB hardware.

I also have my doubts about the efficacy of using room correction in high end audio. I’m not saying it won’t help some but I think adding sound control panels will do a better job.

If you are already using Roon you can do room correction there. Software like REW, Room EQ Wizard, and a USB mic’ can be used to figure out what filter settings are needed. REW will create a file that can be loaded into Roon’s DSP, which will then do the correction. It would be a tedious DIY project putting together the pieces and doing the readings and such, but you only have to do it once as long as your room configuration doesn’t change.

I think of room correction is being more associated with surround sound / Atmos than stereo. I don’t think of surround as being at the same level of accurate audio reproduction as high end stereo is, but that’s just me. :grinning:

I have Lyngdorf RoomPerfect on my AVP. I did use it when I initially set up the AVP but I haven’t done it again since I made some major changes to my system and room configuration. It’s all built into the AVP but it usually takes over an hour to do the calibration and I just haven’t wanted to take the time.

Now, I run the AVP with room correction turned off. Guests who come over to watch a movie are always blown away by it, even with no room correction. So, at least according to my unscientific experiments, I don’t see room correction having much of an effect. Also the AVP/room correction has no effect on the stereo side of my system.

Of course, room correction can work for stereo but there are limits as to what it can do. Issues like low frequencies or early reflections are hard to fix by just by putting DSP filters on signals which is what room correction does. Fixing those issues usually need well placed absorption and dispersion in the room

For me, one side wall in my listening room is about 1/2 glass window, floor to almost ceiling. It is really good at making early reflections… Putting sound absorbing panels over half of the window did help though. Some base traps helped too.

Your milage may vary, of course,

Dan

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@Dan, I am not sure I want it either, but if MSB makes it I know it will be DARN good!

That being said Roon is not ideal for me as I plan to not use it once v3 supports Tidal natively :slight_smile:

But honestly I am not sold on it either, I have not done any real analysis of the response cuve on my system but my listening is VERY enjoyable as is, I know I can improve the very low end but I suspect my layout will be the limiting factor and room correction might improve a couple very minor issues.

I might try Roon error correction just for the fun of it and then I can say if it’s a good/bad/meh idea.

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@Bones13 I will second the SFP idea as I run fiber for my 10G network

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Hello Peter, I agree with Dan. Room correction or any sort of EQ is in fact volume attenuation (or maybe boost) at certain frequencies. The best efforts of this digital manipulation is no longer the native file and not bit perfect. EQ requires this to be done at very high resolutions to have a reasonable analog outcome. This is the best done outboard with a powerful DSP found in a computer. And, what is the talent of the EQ program writer? Some are better than others.

I also feel strongly that a significant segment of the audio file community thinks the room is ultra important to the result. I would absolutely agree that a well designed room acoustic can almost always improve the sound. But it cannot fix an acoustic result from lower performing hardware, bad power, etc. What comes out of the speakers needs to be musical and beautiful first and foremost. In fact, if that has been achieved, then room acoustic tuning , speaker position, and other things will scale much bigger and be much easier to decide and end up with a satisfactory result.

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@Vince_Galbo and @Dan you know I fundamentally agree with both of you, but and it’s a VERY big but.

My listening room is our living room so the balance musicality to esthetics has to be respected at all times, and if one has to win it won’t be my stereo.

The result is I have an amazing sounding system in a beautiful and serene space, but I believe my system could go from amazing to spectacular! I can’t move the components, I can’t add acoustic treatments, I can’t tweak angles or distances much more than I have soooo.

I can accept amazing or I can look at other options, room correction is indeed SW and I am not certain MSB want’s to be in that game, but creating an interface to allow an outboard computer/processor would be something MSB might contemplate. If I didn’t like the renderer as much as I do it would be simple buy something upstream and problem solved as there are several decent solutions that work that way (including roon) but the reality is I think MSB makes fantastic equipment so if there is even a thought of doing something in this area I will participate if possible and wait for the result.

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@Peter.Bomberg , I hear you. My home system suffers similar issues with an unmanageable room setup and my partner is not wanting acoustic treatments on all walls and the ceiling :confused: Aesthetics absolutely matter!

When in a situation like yours, there must be a software remedy, but I don’t foresee that being a project MSB will be taking on. The main reason we have not taken on a server project is it is purely a software game, and we are very focused on DACs. If and when you find something I would be curious to hear or try it out for myself.