What is MSB’s take on using LINUX vs WIndows with Audirvana Studio? The Ubuntu server has a low latency feature and may run “quieter” than the minimal Windows services.
Are you using USB, or ethernet streaming?
Clearly, the type of operating system, and USB implementation, will affect the sound quality. Perhaps less so with ProUSB and Digital Director.
I am not convinced that it matters as much when streaming from a server via ethernet to the MSB Renderer, particularly when using a Digital Director.
I have tried Roon from NAS, Roon from a MAC, Roon from a PC, and Roon from a NUC loaded with the ROCK operating system (lightweight linux). I could not tell the difference when used via the Renderer. I currently use the NUC with ROCK because of the stability, and “setup and forget about it” nature of its use.
Things that I have noticed that improved my digital system sound quality:
- Implemented ethernet streaming to a microRendu, moving away from a PC streamer using USB (Pre MSB for me).
- Used a fiber ethernet segment, just prior to the streamer
- When I first inserted the etherRegen ethernet filter (fed by fiber).
- When I implemented the Digital Director for the Premier MSB Stack.
The list would be longer for an USB implementation, including the server OS.
Hi, I’m using USB into the MSB. To quiet things down: separate Ethernet switch powered by Shanti LPS (5v), ifi Ethernet silencer at PC end, ferrite core at switch end, JCAT usb card, powered by the 2nd 5v Shanti 3a LPS, and then uptone regen for USB at DAC end.
Have thought about going to proUSB to replaced uptone. Also tried fiber to Ethernet converter for network side, no noticeable difference (maybe more harsh because fiber to cat7 converter) with current setup.
I have read several reports of improvement from standard USB to the PRO USB input. A lot of bang for the buck there.
That being said, a well set up and run “OS A” will be better than poorly implemented “OS B”. At this point in my life, I like the bulletproof custom Linix server (ROCK by Roon) over a headless PC/Mac, that takes a lot of time keeping going. Just my experience over time. You may do better. It would take a bit of time for me to learn Linux well enough to install Linux, correct drivers, and Audirvana on a PC, and keep it stable. Not impossible, but not in my plans atm. There are several versions of “audiophile” linux available. I might give those a try.
Be sure to have a driver for your USB card for whatever operating system you choose.
Hi @Bones13 ,
Thanks - I have inquired, but will take a look at the Pro USB. On the OS A vs B, I’ve tried ROON and didn’t like its presentation vs Audirvana and JCAT software, even though I think the user interface is best. For LINUX, even though Audirvana outlines a simple install, its not that straight forward. I got it to work, but not without some manual intervention and knowledge of access rights on LINUX for music on local drives . So, on the streamer front, sticking with Windows given all of the other mechanisms to quiet down any network or USB noise.
One of my conceptual projects is to learn some Linux, and try the Audirvana server, or to setup a true Minimserver uPnP server and use JPlay iOS interface.
My usage is quite different than yours, as I am only providing network transfer of files to the Renderer, and am not needing to provide a specific environment for USB in the PC. My issues are ethernet hygiene, Server functionality, and the Interface. Different experiments for me.
Hi Michael - when ready, let me know as I can probably support questions as I’ve setup an Ubuntu server (multiple times and methods - virtual machines, on bare metal, etc.), Minimserver (for my locally stored and NAS based music files), used JPLAY on Windows with Minimserver and the JPLAY IOS App. I also stream QOBUZ. I switched back to Audirvana because of issues with JPLAY that weren’t resolved. You can PM me with contact info.
Thanks so much. My system is still in storage since early December. We retired, and moved from Mobile, AL to Seattle to help with an 18 mo old grand daughter. We have procured a house, and we are getting it ready for move in mid May. (New boiler system for radiant floors, A/C installation this week, installing some internet cabling, and a circuit for the system, then a bit of painting) I ended up with a spectacular room, something I was not expecting.
It will be mid summer before I start fooling around with things. I will be playing with the room till at least then,
I will let you know if/when I start other projects.
Question, would a Raspberry Pi be enough of a computer, with external HD to run a small Ubuntu MinimServer?
I might have an older NUC that I hope made it into the move box vs the toss box while packing this fall. That would be the perfect experiment box.
Thanks again for the offer to help. I learned Basic programming in 1975, and have been as much of a computer nerd since then, given that I was an orthopedic surgeon with a 3 kid family. I never put the time into learning Unix/ Linux. Heck, I ran Windows 1.0 on a dual 5.25 floppy disc PC XT.
Hi Michael,
Good luck with the new house!
While Ubuntu can run on a Pi I don’t think minim server does. I suggest you use an intel or AMD box.
Talk in August.
Regards,
Ian
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@Jonathan_Gullman will probably have to answer you on this one, but typically we encourage whatever sounds best. Every implementation has its merits.
Minimserver has packages for Linux on arm. It should run on raspberry
And as for computing power, the pi4 or pi5 sounds more than enough for minimserver.
I believe I have a pi4 with Ubuntu lying around somewhere. If I am able to find it, I will try running minimserver and report back.
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Sorry it took me a while. But I can confirm minimserver running on my pi4.
Just followed this guide.
Movers coming in a week. I doubt the first thing we set up will be my music room.
But, I have been exploring on the web. It does appear that Minimserver should run well on the Raspberry Pi 4/5. This would be using the Raspberry Pi OS, which is a Linux build as I understand it.
I do plan to get my room set up, and dialed in with my current system. I am coming from a 9.5 x 14 foot room, with a sloping ceiling to a HUGE room (17x23) with the back half being 2 stories high, with lots of windows. So I have a lot of work, and experimentation to do, just with my room, before I get into looking a new servers. Seems I always come back to the functionality of Roon, so I will definitely start there.
Thanks for the report.
Quick update: I traded in my Discrete for the Premier and the ProISL/USB interface, still USB from my PC. Inserted an ethernet/Fiber/ethernet switch (ifi Purifier Pro powered by the same LPS -Shanti). The new DAC was definitely a step up in 3 dimensionality, detail, smoothness, sound stage. The ifi quieted down things (blacker background) than an ethernet switch with the LPS. Audirvana on the PC is currently on W11 pro, but thinkin of moving to Linux.
I never previews the Discrete. When I was looking at MSB DACs, adding the Power Base to a Discrete was too close to just getting the Premier (includes power base + better DAC and Clock)
I moved sideways, and got a QNAP NAS, and have compared my ROCK Nuc to Roon on the NAS, and can’t tell a difference. The NAS will also run MinimServer, and I got JPlay to read from it. However, I’m trying to get JPlay to find the Renderer module now.
Congratulations on your DAC upgrade!
Thanks Bones. I used JPLAY and loved the sound, but glitchy.
Switched back to Audirvāna, after trying Room again. Nothing like the Roon interface.
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Recent JPlay update this week. Just this morning have it totally configured to see my NAS based MinimServer, Qobuz, and my MSB Premier Renderer v2. I’m busy this morning, but will give it a go this afternoon.
Wife was napping this afternoon, so shootout via my Blue Hawaii SE + Stax headphone system.
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Roon app on NAS, pointed to the NAS folder containing music.
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JPlay (iPad) pointed to the MinimServer app on the NAS and same NAS music folder.
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Audirvana app on NaS pointed at the same NAS music folder.
All through the Renderer v2 in my Premier DAC + Digital Director→ pre-amp → BHSE/Stax
Up front, I own lifetime Roon, and have used heavily since it came out.
I heard very little difference between the 3 apps, although I felt the Roon presentation sounded a bit more fleshed out. Also both JPlay, and Audirvana (unsupported NAS install), would start the song perhaps 0.5-1.0 seconds into the song, whereas Roon started at the beginning.
As well, I agree with the interfaces not being up to the very polished Roon standard. Perhaps if I managed my MinimServer for better metadata tagging, it would be closer.
In summary, neither JPlay, nor Audirvana will replace Roon in my system. I will not renew my Audirvana subscription (got 2 years as Black Friday special last year) I suspect that a PC or Mac based Audirvana would be significantly better than what I used today, but don’t anticipate that any time soon in my system.
Next step for me is to re-setup my Fanless DIY NUC based ROCK system, and arrange for file synchronization between it, and the NAS music folder.
Thanks Michael. I found the ROON to be ethereal in its presentation, while the imaging from Audirvana and JPLAY to be “flesher” more palpable. Opposite of yours. Interesting.
Comparison - for all three were run on my server: a fanless DIY MiniITX PC with a JCAT FEMTO USB card (powered by a SHanti LPS) running windows 11 - with all options turned off.
Why would you think running Audirvana on a MAC would be better?
One alternative I am considering is moving to Audirvana on LINUX (testing it out now on a Hyper-v virtual machine). Also, settings can be tweaked using the software to upsample. Have you tried this on Roon?
Best,
Ian
Not specifically a Mac, but rather a desktop, or laptop running the Audirvana core, connected to the MSB via USB, I would presume. Rather than the NAS install run by the iOS remote program.