I have been using Acoustic Zen “Absolute” speaker cables in my system for the last 15 years. Its a 15’ run into my Wilson Alexx V’s, a difficult load to drive with my Dagostino Momentum high-current amps. I loved the result I was getting but got the itch. Would a more modern design with heavier gauge wire (9 vs 6) improve my sound quality. Enter Shunyata Sigma-X speaker cable. I decided on these because I was not looking for tonal change but more refined bass and better soundstage/3D imaging. Well they arrived a few days ago and they did make a small difference. The most obvious was clearer and better bass definition. A clear winner here. The other immediate response I had was that they sounded “smoother”. Let me explain. The AZ’s had a slightly harder edge to the treble. The Sigma’s did not. I guess you would say cymbals sound more like the real thing and less etched. But what about soundstage…no major shift here nor did the music sound more 3D. I recently added two REL No 31’s to my system that only cost a few thousand more than the cables. No surprise here but the subs clearly had the largest impact on SQ by far. Would I do it all over again…thats tough. The rest of my system uses AQ Thunderbird line cables. For me and at my age (old with cash) probably yes. For someone building a system from the ground up maybe not. I’d just advise putting the most money into you speakers as you can reasonably afford.
@skinzy I can’t say enough good things about the SQ impact my REL 31’s have at low volume. Combined with Angel interconnects and the REL Airship II it’s a fantic setup.
@skinzy and in my experience the cables you use for the REL’s matter, many say they are just subs but in my opinion they are your foundation!
Without the solid bottom to low range everything else feels thin and flat, and I also believe that stereo subs matter more than most people (my experience and opinion)
Agreed. Did you see the 31 has been replaced by No. 35. New driver and AB amp.
@skinzy I did and if it hadn’t been for the fact mine are custom I would be really tempted (ok I am tempted but in this case I will control myself)
Congrats on the new cable. The X line is very special indeed. I have an Omega X XC powering the Everest X with plans to push further into that lineup.
I just retired a set of Rel 32s I’ve used with my Wilson Sasha Vs (soon to be listed on TMR) after using Todd Binnix’s book Precision Sound on speaker tuning. When running tube amps and less powerful SS amps, the Rels provided the necessary lift in the lower octaves to augment the Sasha’s and I enjoyed them very much. But after stepping up the horsepower and further dialing in speaker placement, I discovered additional bass performance with these Sasha’s that obviated the need for the Rels to remain. I don’t part with them easily or without shedding a tear recalling many fond listening sessions. I prefer warmer richer tones from the lower region, not techno so much, but authentic visceral feel of a double bass non-amplified. I’m in the sub camp for sure, but equally sonically satisfied with them going to a promising new owner with no plans to move on with the newly announced line.
@mcmt4 I hear you completely, the REL’s are wonderful but there are tradeoffs (to this and it seems pretty much everything else in life) , I found the 31 to be a much better pairing than the 32 but I have to admit I want to compare to the 35, but ironically while I love the REL’s they are a low volume solution crank the system up and they are not needed and at even higher levels they need to be toned down.
Hey Guys, Curious how you have your subs set up. Mine are at reverse phase. Low pass set at 29 htz and volume set at 12. I understand room and equiptment dependent but still curious. I also have a large listening room 16’WX42’DX12’H. Rear wall also open. They really are invisible. Absolutely appreciate importance of setup mcmt4. I do find it a bit difficult to experiment when my speakers weigh 500lds each!
@skinzy mine face the speakers (about 2ft outside of the center axis and 12ft in front of the speakers) so same reverse phase 24hz and volume at 20.
The room is open so effectively 17D’ X 50+'W X 14’H but realistically its an open 1200Sqft space with 14ft ceilings
I am curious how you decided to reverse the polarity of your subs. Did you do the integration by ear?
My two subs were optimized using REW to measure the changes and ChatGPT to help guide the interpretation of the results as well as suggest next steps. I also ended up reversing the polarity of both subs to achieve a wonderful integration. Specifically, filling in a ‘suck-out’ in my room around 45hz and a reduction of a strong resonance in the 65hz region.
Positioning of the listening position and subs were the most impactful steps toward integration however.
For me yes. As the REL setup instructions suggest which ever setting results in the fullest bass. It was quite obvious.
@crwilli I tried the REL approach and the REW approach and the results were VERY different, I can’t say either was bad but the REW was trying to solve a physics problem in my opinion the REL approach was trying to solve an enjoyment issue.
Over the years I have had the same experience with almost all acoustic measurement room treatment/correction issues, they are not wrong they are just wrong for me.
If you have the time (as it’s a very long and rather annoying process) would encourage you to redo the setup using REL’s approach and even better ignore the old rule that the subs should be placed at X, I have been running them asymmetrically in our home theater fo a long time as the seating is of axis and I know for a fact the delay and decay are not ideal but the sound aligns with the movie in a more realistic and engaging way so …
I am guilty of being trained in science. I trust it and combined with my ears, it is how I find my best SQ. I enjoy using REW and recently, ChatGPT. They are a key part of my audio journey.
I am confident people can achieve good results with the REL process. Clearly they can to support such a successful company.
My subs are asymmetric, run individually for each channel and set at different crossover, phase (delay) and level settings. The latter adjusted by ear to center the bass by evening out the left to right balance. After I did all of that, I ran each subs DSP to further optimize them.
@crwilli I am equally guilty and my experience is jaded by too many dead rooms that sound great on paper (or a screen) but don’t evoke any emotions. I will admit REW is a very good tool and I use it as well.
And from what I read of your approach it’s a best of both not a worst of them approach.
Now you have me curious I never tried running the output through a AI tool to see what it suggests, interesting and could be fun to play with.
I used Chat GPT to help me interpret the measurements from REW. It has helped me go beyond simply SPL versus Frequency. For example, using ETC combined with knowledge of my room dimensions and shape, it guided me to locations for my room treatments. Some were not obvious due to the angles of my ceiling. It also saved time and was easier than having someone slide a mirror across the various surfaces 
For sub integration, it did the complicated math to identify suggested locations for my subs. That saved a tremendous amount of time and no doubt, lead to a better result. I don’t like moving them that much as they are heavy. I also don’t like crawling around on the floor listening for resonances.
Chat GPT saved me time and gave me a better overall result but it isn’t perfect. I had to train it on my room specifics and question it from time to time as the results didn’t match what I heard. I also had to be clear on what my goals were. At first, it was trying to get to a flat overall response. I wanted a declining response e.g. a sloped frequency response. I am up 5-8dB at 20hz versus 1000hz for example.
My apologies to the OP for this detour.
I will also apologize to the OP, and @crwilli your no flat curve comment made me a happy camper. Mine has 3 humps and one dip, 2 are preferences and 2 are adjustments for the room.
That being said I only use the DSP/REW to satisfy curiosity playback is native (no DSP other than Dustin’s magic)
No apologies needed. I find this discussion interesting. I mean how much time can you spend talking about a wire? If I had a dedicated listening room special built for that purpose I too would be very scientific. My problem is I value room aesthetics which limits what I can do in my listening environment. Alas compromises are made. I do try to get the most from the small set of variables that I can control. I like the sound I get. Could it sound better through expert setup; probably.
Your focus on aesthetics shines brightly in your outstanding listening space!
Dan
D.A.R.O., the JL Audio DSP tool is built into the subs and only impacts their output. It works extremely well.
love the space and the cozy atmosphere