Would greatly value forum members input on the following…
I currently own a S202 that is driving my reasonably efficient Gobel Divin Marquis loudspeakers. My room is large 35’ x 23 x 14’. My typical listening levels register between 75-85 on my Select LED. Given this, I don’t feel like I’m at a loss for power or that the speakers are being inadequately fed in the absence of demoing whether a larger MSB amplifier might elevate performance in my system. Notwithstanding, I’ve considered the idea of upgrading my amp. Not because I’m displeased with the performance of the S202, but because the amount of $s I have invested in my amplification is disproportionately less than that of the other components in the signal path in my system.
That said, for those who’ve compared the performance of the S202 to the S500 or M205s on reasonably efficient speaker like mine (92db), wherein the Select was serving as a preamplifier, was there a noticeable improvement in performance at the same volume level over the S202? Was the sonic improvement more noticeable with S500 or M200s? How so? Integrating either of these two amplifier upgrade options into my system would require significant “surgery” given my custom rack design, so I would only want to consider them if the sonic performance improvement was highly discernible.
Lastly, if I were weighing these amplification upgrade options against upgrading from the Select w/ two mono bases to the Cascade, from which upgrade path do you believe I’d derive the greatest sonic ROI?
I have only two, somewhat indirect, data points that pushed me to upgrade my system…
The balanced inputs for the Cascade preamp seem to be dead quiet and distortion free. Could’t ask for more from a preamp… it’s like it isn’t there.
When I replaced my McIntosh MCD12000 DAC (which is a very good DAC) with the Cascade I immediately noticed the difference, big time. When I had my audiophile friends (who had listened to my pre Cascade system many times) over to listen they were blown away and said it sounded like I had completely replaced everything in my system. They couldn’t believe the difference.
I was satisfied with what the Cascade added to my system,… But, those two data points convinced me to upgrade the rest of my system to take advantage of everything the Cascade can do. So I am in there process of replacing my amplifiers (MC901s) with MSB M500s and replacing my speakers (Sonus faber Amati) with Magico M6s.
Doing the A/B test you (and I) would like to do is very hard. Even if you can find a dealer to loan you all the equipment it’s a huge effort to integrate it. I’ve never found listening rooms at HiFi stores or other people’s homes that great for telling me what equipment would sound like in my home.
Dan
P.S I’m going all the way to the M500s because, IMHO, power is about dynamics not loudness. YMVV
Thanks, Dan! Appreciate you sharing your experience and a recent chapter from your HIFI journey.
You have a flagship, end of the road system in the making! It’s already great but will be world class once completed!
Indeed, it’s so difficult to A/B for all the reasons you mentioned. I have custom shelves that house my components so any component change or upgrade requires a jigsaw and custom sized isolation platforms. It a pretty big undertaking. To this end, I’m hopeful that Daniel offers his POV as he likely has the greatest grasp of where my $s would be best invested to generate the greatest sonic ROI whether that be moving further up the MSB amplification line or from the Select to the Cascade.
Pls let me know whether the N20 provides any worthwhile improvement in your sonics once the M500s are installed and broken in! As mentioned, I have an N30SA in my system that I’d happily move out if the Cascade’s DD renders a high end server unnecessary.
Hi Blake,
I am a dCS Rossini user and an MSB fan, especially the Cascade. Just my two cents on this comment:
IMHO, the purpose of getting a high-end front end is to let it do the core DSP.
For this reason, I and many dCS Vivaldi users simply use a Roon core and let the Upsampler (dCS) or Digital Director (MSB) do the hard work. Accordingly, I would be passing a raw file directly to the Cascade, without server-level DSP, if you go that route…
Thanks, Richard. Appreciate you weighing in. I’m not using any of the upsampling capabilities of the Aurender. Really, the only reason I added it to my system several years ago was at the recommendation of several audiophiles who also owned the Select who claimed that a high end audio server was superior to that of the sound produced by the Select’s Renderer module. However, this was prior to the release of the Digital Director. Without the Digital Director, I would agree that the Aurender produces better sound than that of the Renderer module interface. Now that that the DD is available and is part of the Cascade stack, it doesn’t sound like there’s incremental sonic value of using a high end audio server for added isolation, buffering, etc. Assuming this is true, this indeed is great news as I’d be happy to sell my N30SA and apply those $s to an amp or DAC upgrade.
@Battles, I know you are look for other members input, but I will add some technical feedback if you are open.
Upgrading from S202 to the M205’s brings some incremental improvements from going stereo to mono. More transformer capability per channel, no cross talk, etc. But this is fundamentally the same amplifier technology platform. The performance is improved but will maintain many similarities and the sound signature of the the S202. This is really ideal for those who love having mono amps or are not able to make the gap to the S500.
Now, the S500 is a radically more advanced amplifier. I could recite some marketing stuff, but you can read that on the webpage. All that to say, the performance of the S500 will be far superior to the S202 or M205’s. The 500 series amps are really something special. They are big and heavy, so not the easiest to deal with, but if you can… it is what I would recommend.
Thanks, Daniel. Grateful for your feedback. If I were to upgrade to the Cascade and S500 in the foreseeable future, but could not upgrade simultaneously, from a performance standpoint (coming from the Select with two mono power bases), in which order would you suggest I sequence the upgrades?
I can say it very easy when you first start to listen to MSB both dacs and amps it is super hard to go back, it is for me and many of the customers we have feel the same.
Whit msb you hear the music not the gear and this was made me fall in love whit MSB.
Would love to hear what you gain sonically by upgrading from the S202 to S500 in a situation where the speaker is efficient and doesn’t need more than 200 watts. Is the performance night and day better?
By comparison, would the performance improvement be similar to upgrading from the Select II to the Cascade?
This is only what i know and what i think it is right if you have the money for it.
You get more of all more headroom, control. more and most of all it sounds better all so it is a new liga and is a end game for my, so go to see you dealer and hear for your self and you will hear what i mean sir
You can all ways call me on whatsapp and we can have a talk if you want sir
I agree with what Henrik said. Power is about detail, dynamics and location, not loudness.
The faster something changes the more power that is needed to accurately reproduce it, regardless of level. Meters can’t show the very short peaks in power that occur when , for example, a performer hits a rim shot on a tom, or a piano key hammer hits a string. If that “instant” power is not available from the amp the effect will be “mushed” out and not be correctly reproduced.
Thanks, gentlemen. Absent having a dealer in town who has both the 202 and 500 available to A/B, it’s helpful having input from enthusiasts, dealers, etc who’ve listened to/auditioned them both
Henrik a very kind offer. I’ll try you on WhatsApp this week. Thanks in advance.