JPLAY - Looking for user feedback

Official - Updates
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Yesterday I re-installed MinimServer on my NAS, and rescanned the library there. Then I pulled up the JPlay app, and deleted old settings, and re-indexed the library there too.

The only trouble I experienced was that I could not get MinimServer to accept the actual directory, on the NAS, but rather one level up. I have a folder for RedBook&HiRez in my share/music folder that excludes some genres, including a separate folder for the MSB firmware files. I don’t want some family, or friend picking one of those to play by mistake. As I have too many Christmas albums, they are also separated until needed for that 4-6 week period.

It was pretty smooth to use, aside from being different from the Roon interface, it was an enjoyable experience. No jumping or stuttering like the other time I tried it. I need to pick a time to sit, and directly compare sound quality though. That was just a proof of concept.

Certainly it’s working better than it used to. I only have the free version of the MinimSever license, it might have more sorting / searching functionality with the tagging recommendations by JPlay to better set up MinimServer. You can’t customize those strings without subscribing.

Work In Progress for me. I still really like to be able to control the music from both the computer, and the device, seamlessly, yet not having the server running in the computer. Perhaps I should look into PC/Mac upnp control apps to level the field. Then all three, Roon, JPlay, and Audirvana, would be directly competing with sound quality only. Audirvana is lacking an “easy” Linux based server option, although, I expect their NAS app might improve enough to qualify.

A question to the experts out there: if The JPlay iOS app is just telling a upnp server to send the data to the renderer, is it different than any of the other upnp control apps like Kinsky? (There are others historically, but none as slick as JPlay).

I mean, I understand the original JPlay concept of a Unix based server (fempto-server, and light weight renderer, with fancy USB output implementation, all well regarded). I can appreciate that there are the different Ethernet streaming protocols (RAAT, and whatever Audirvana uses). As far as I understand it, in this new JPlay app, the iOS app simply acts as a upnp controller. I mean to emphasize that the music file moves directly from the upnp server to the renderer, directed by the JPlay iOS app. Certainly the music file in no way passes through the iOS device. As well there is no special transfer protocol inserted into the upnp server that would customize to JPlay.

Maybe I’m missing something?

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@Daniel_Francis

Some clarification of what you guys saw would be useful. Are you saying:

A) Some Roon releases changed your configuration to not be bit perfect, this showed up in the user interface, and you were able to change it back?

B) Some Roon releases were not delivering bit perfect data to your DACs even though it was configured for bit perfect playback? In other words their software sometimes lied to you.

C) The sound quality changed with some releases even though they still delivered bit perfect data to your DACs? If this is your answer, please elaborate technically on how this is possible. I cannot imagine how this could be true.

A lot of people seem to believe that two different software solutions that are both truly bit perfect can sound different when playing the same music file. Here is the simplest explanation I can think of for why they must sound identical. Imagine the point in time where an unmodified and error free part of the music data has arrived in the input buffer of a DAC, but the DAC is not quite to that section of the music yet. Nothing the upstream software did in the past matters at this point. All aspects of playback sound quality for this section of the music are currently in the hands of the DAC and will soon be in the hands of the downstream analog components. Since the DAC and analog components are constants in this analysis, all software that manages to get bit perfect data into the DAC’s input buffer at least a little before it is needed must sound identical.

1 Like
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Is JPlay stable now on the Renderer in terms of streaming from Tidal? That was the issue I had with JPlay: I had to enable the Proxy setting to stream from Tidal, but then it was very unstable with frequent dropouts. But streaming local files from a NAS is fine with JPlay using Minimserver. JPlay has advised me that if there was a problem streaming from Tidal with Proxy disabled, it means there was a problem with the streamer, which would be the Renderer…

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I don’t use Tidal, but with this current trial, I was able to get Qobuz to work normally (no proxy) by logging out of Qobuz, in JPlay, and log back in.

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Thanks, I tried streaming again from Tidal on JPlay with Proxy disabled. It skips each track. It doesn’t work. So, I must stick with Roon, which does work. Disappointing. Why can’t the stuff work for the price you pay?!

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To follow up with this, we were getting variability in SQ on the original Roon Nucleus while streaming Qobuz. That specific setup wasn’t cutting it for us so we switched to streaming Qobuz through the Aurender. Simple as that… we don’t have any insider information for what is going on behind the scenes with the original Roon Nucleus, just what we were hearing. We will refrain from passing any sweeping judgments, but that is what we encountered in our specific setup.

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67

@crwilli
I tend to share your view about Squeeze with Roon. I use an Antipodes Audio K50 (among other sources). I bought the lifetime Roon license for the quality of the GUI and found that the Roon server + Squeeze player configuration outplaces the Roon server + Roon player configuration by a large difference. I just don’t like the latter.

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68

Yes, using an Antipodes server/player allows many different configuration with different software applications, without any additional computer.
Antipodes Audio music servers utilize a versatile, user-configurable suite of applications based on the AMS (Antipodes Music Server) software. Key apps include Squeeze, Roon, HQPlayer, and MPD/DLNA, allowing users to select different software for both the server (core) and player (endpoint) roles to optimize sound quality. All these apps are already installed in the Antipodes servers, so no need for adding a separate computer to run any apps.

I have tried the combinations Squeeze + Squeeze, Roon + Roon (RAAT) and Roon + Squeeze player. The sound signature/characteristics of the above 3 combinations are quite significant, and yes, you can hear/identify the sound differences quite easily. Depending on what type of sound characteristics you like, you can choose anyone of the 3 combinations, plus other combinations i have not tried/compared.
Roon server + Roon player produces a smoother and more relaxing sound with less sharp focus of instruments and vocals.
While Roon server + Squeeze player has more focused and pinpointed vocals and instruments imaging (more details or resolutions? ).
I didn’t pay too much attention to the Squeeze + Squeeze combination because the user interface with Tidal, Quboz, or SSD music files storage is too cumbersome. Many audiophiles prefer this combination.
I chose the Roon + Squeeze combination to take full advantage of the superb Roon user interface.

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69

I’m just going to say, there needs to be some separation of these discussions between dedicated players via USB/I2S/SPDIF, and those of us streaming via the Renderer V2. Two very different scenarios. Each with its own set of issues.

I can’t denigrate some of those spectacular devices, but, when comparing streaming software, they are different beasts altogether,

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It has emerged that I also have problems streaming local files on Ethernet backhaul from my NAS with MinimServer to my MSB Renderer, over JPlay: there is an annoying stuttering or clipping at the start of each track in the same album. It’s not a resync issue as there is no change of formats. I raised this issue with Marcin at JPlay, and he says that he can’t fix it with the app. He says there is some or other issue with my NAS or throughput from the NAS or Network. But it’s a QNAP with MinimServer, which is also used as my Roon core. I have no such issues with Roon. So, JPlay is simply not workable in my system, which is disappointing.

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I have:

- Qnap with MinimServer

- Reference with DD and Renderer input

- JPlay: no problem

My network has all the ethernet connections that go in an Aqvox switch: your problem could arise in your network, but I can’t give you technical indications

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@Francesco Thank you. I’m not a technical person or a person with a computer science degree. I feel so helpless, and there is no-one around locally to assist me. It seems therefore that I will have to soldier on with Roon.

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Have you tried to activate Gapless?

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@DWMB How much memory does your QNAP NAS have? Most entry level NAS devices have insufficient memory for anything other than basic file serving. They are perfectly capable in every other way, so adding memory is often all it takes. This was the case with my Synology NAS, which hosts my Roon core.

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More memory, M.2 SSD cache drives can help. Memory is the place to start.

But, not all NAS processors are created equal. Check to see if your processor is powerful enough.

Network wise: try to simplify the path between NAS and the Renderer. Try to have both plugged directly into the router, or primary switch. Then try unplugging other Ethernet things, and try the system some more.

Turn everything off, including modem, router, switch, NAS, and renderer.

Wait 1 minute (I have to use a watch :face_with_spiral_eyes:)

Turn each on in succession, starting with the modem. Wait to power the next item in the chain until the prior device is fully functioning.

Perhaps too many things to try, sorry.

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76

I suggest you download the free mconnect app and use it to stream from you nas, as it also stream from minimserver. It should help isolate the problem.

Minimserver is a very lightweight application. It should not give you any headaches. If mconnect also stutters, it may be a setting within minimserver.

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My first experience of streaming music was with Mconnect via a Synology NAS with minimserver or directly over Qobuz when I had the Reference DAC +DD with Renderer V2. It was working rather well.
On another smaller secondary system in a distant location : streaming on Qobuz via an Oppo103 (DLNA) using Mconnect.
On both setups, from time to time the start of a track was missing the first few seconds even with gapless button enabled in Mconnect.
A bit annoying over time, I confess.

Then, about 2 years ago, I started to have bigger issues: Mconnect would simply stop playing in the middle of a track randomly for no reason. I thought it was related to the Renderer V2 ? No because I observed the same on the Oppo103.

Was it Apple device related ? Again no, same behavior when using Mconnect on an iPhone 13 or an iPad 10.
I questioned Qobuz : it was not coming from them but they heard similar behavior about Mconnect from other qobuzzers.
I wrote to Mconnect if related to required updates : no answer. This app has never been updated through the various IOS new releases.
So exit Mconnect once for all (it became unbearable to listen to streaming music using this app). I finally bought an Antipodes K50 with Roon server on the main system centered around the Cascade DAC. I sold my Renderer V2 input card. And an Eversolo A8 joined the other system : all problems solved.

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I agree that mconnect is far from state of art. That is why I was suggesting a test, to try to isolate the behavior.

In my digital journey, I went through: kazoo, lumin, bubble, logitechmediaserver, foobar, innuos. All trying not to surrender to roon. None presented a satisfactory experience, due to the buggy and flaky upnp protocol (lms is somewhat reliable, specially when using a squeezebox emulator, but as a community project you have to be prepared for some long troubleshooting sessions).

Then I bought the lifetime version and I am happy. roon resides in an always-on pc and I don’t even remember it.

HQPlayer is very liable also, and works well with roon (hqplayer user interface is nasty).

so, my take after 10 years of tinkering: if you want a solid and reliable platform, with good user interface, use roon. If you want to be anal regarding sound quality (particularly, I have never heard any difference between roon versions through my YG Sonja speakers), partner roon with hqplayer and only think about what is the next album you will be playing

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79

I think you are right about Roon. I’m finding UPnP protocol too buggy and difficult to use. I’ve tried with JPlay, but Marcin cannot fix the issue. Audirvana, even worse from a NAS.

Thanks for the advice.

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@Easyglider Prompted by your post, I am exploring Squeeze as an option to connect my music library on an SSD attached to my Mac Studio which also serves as my Roon host. I want to try the Roon + Squeeze combo, as you said, to take advantage of the Roon GUI.

Question for you: How have you configured this setup in your system and are you using the Antipodes component or the MSB Renderer? I have both the Renderer V2 and a Rose 150b used solely as a streamer and wondering which of these two paths I need to implement, based on the big assumption that one or both can provide the connection from the music library to the MSB DAC. TY!