Alas everything in life (or at least) mine is a compromise and functionality is right up there with esthetics and sound quality but all are below enjoyment.
Allowing my wife to use the same streamer (and she isn’t giving up Spotify) is a factor, while I can see the purists view I am fairly certain changing from the Renderer means a compromise (if the N50 or PF Scion or Innous Nazaré can be considered a compromise) but both the N50 and Nazaré natively support both.
However I will wait until April as one upgrade at a time is enough
I have been using the Antipodes Oladra for 2 years now, works great and it is possible tu use different platforms (Roon with squeezebox, Roon, jplay etc. It has a separate player and separate server section, flexible with hard drives and possible to rip cd’s onto the HD.
Has Direct stream out to the renderer module (also the HDMI and USB… and their tech support is great.
Doesn’t your current ROON core have local storage on it for PCM and DSD files? If so, why is there a need for local storage?
Assumption: You will use ROON vs other software (proprietary and on appliance devices like Aurender). All local storage remains on the same ROON Core device. Only implement a Roon end point for the “last mile” to your DAC
Assumption: You’re only looking to replace the delivery component, ROON end point. ROON interfaces to QOBUZ and TIDAL, so why is there a need for QOBUZ connect? Are you looking to change your controller - i.e. iPAD app, to another software?
Have you considered other upstream improvements besides just the Roon end point, like a network switch that in essence performs the same copper to fiber to copper to eliminate jitter and introduce galvanic isolation?
My recommendation: Keep ROON core (or upgrade the device), add local storage to it for your PCM and DSD flies. Introduce a “audiophile” network switch (I have iFi audio LAN iPurifier Pro Ethernet Noise Filter, powered by a Shanti LPS) to your DAC using the MSB network renderer module in your MSB DAC/digital director which supports ROON end point. This simplifies the daisy chain of delivering music to your DAC and potential points of noise introduction. Also, using shielded network cables to/from the switch and the DAC should help keep EMF at bay.
I also use the Antipodes Oladra with great results via USB through the MSB Pro-ISL USB connection, using Roon as the server and Squeezebox as the player. I also use Qobuz as the Antipodes provides access to that service. I am pretty high on the Oladra and recommend a demonstration through a dealer.
No need for local storage. Rather the ability to play music files purchased and stored on an SSD connected by network or directly by usb c to the streamer server.
On use of Roon and streaming services like Qobuz Connect, Tidal, etc: I want redundancy for playback as Roon is not always available. And when Roon is down, I still want access to stream or play back store files using the OS. A Mac Studio is currently employed as the core and it works fine but also serves other compute needs. The idea of a dedicated Core for Roon dedicated to music playback further minimizes introducing more environmental processing noise, or that is the assumption.
The wired network is dialed in with audio grade network switches and Ethernet cables to both the Renderer and the current Streamer, a Rose 150b, both wired directly by Ethernet.
Appreciate the response and to isolate your audio content/software from other duties on a common server. So, given you can buy/built a dedicated server, its all about the software. For redundancy purposes, you could install, but not use Audirvana (BTW, I like the sonic quality better than Roon. Its a dedicated single room solution, not multiroom like Roon). There is a subscription for this software. Audirvana works with a number of streaming services including Qobuz (which I use) and Tidal and has its own ipad/iphone/android app for the controller. If you want to keep your playlists on Qobuz and Tidal in synch I’ve been trying out SoundDiiz. Local playlist on Roon would need to be imported manually into Audirvana (M3U entries). Hope this helps.
May I kindly ask why you changed from Aurender to Innuos, and which models you are referring to? I’m asking because I’m considering the same, with my MSB Discrete DAC. Thanks.
When I started music streaming, I used my personal computer first and then dedicated music servers like the Aurender N100. While this unit was sonically very good and it’s software sufficiently good, but I always looked for more, which I finally got when I discovered R o o n. It is the most sophisticated server/streaming software I know (beside Audirvana). However the Aurender was never Roon compatible, so I had to migrate to an Innuos Zen MK3 to have a roon server. The Renderer V2 module for my MSB “the Analog Dac” is the Roon end point. Works fine to the very day.
If you are a heavy Roon user and have Renderer V2 module, don’t miss the SOtM sMS-2000. I’ve tried for 1 day and decide to order one. Much better than the Roon Nucleus One.
I went with the Aurender N20 and its good. If I were to do it today, I would probabaly go with the Innuos Navare or the next one up. I think they have the edge in sound reproduction.
Before the Aurender I had the Rose 130, and I swear it was WAY better than it had any right being at that low asking price! Infact, I actually prefer aspects of its sound to the Aurender I have now. But yeah… I would go Innuos Navare now.
While I am still open minded to the benefits of the Streamer Server improving the overall experience married with the MSB Cascade, the engineering of the MSB Cascade is such that a Streamer Server should not significantly benefit the listener unless there are other problems in the system such as substandard electrical system, poor grounding, problematic/noisy components, etc.
I would like to hear from objective users (without a financial interest) honestly acknowledging the psychoacoustic influence on the assessment that have both the Renderer and a Streamer and a comparison between the two. While not a courageous endeavor, the test could undermine the emotional investment in the system, which may be a bridge some may not want to cross. I respect that and don’t wish to push anyone to an uncomfortable place. But for those that have made the investment and willing to share, a sincere thank you!
Thanks for sharing the video link. Very informative. It has been my experience that the Cascade does an excellent job mitigating electrical noise. My Innuos Zenith NG streamer is located 20’ from my DAC and other components. It’s on a separate power circuit and has a dedicated PSAudio power regenerator. When I installed the NG which replace the Mk3 I hear almost no difference. This is what the video suggests and is my experience. Still curious why others with Cascade DAC do hear differences between streamers?
One aspect of streamer quality that the posted video glossed over is the difference in playback software quality. The presenter assumed that if the music software played back audio without glitches then it was “bit perfect”. This is not always the case. Some playback software I have evaluated can even playback “bit-perfect” enough so that it nearly always passes my built in DAC bit-perfect tests, but still contains errors. The built in DAC bit-perfect test is too short to catch infrequent errors. Subtle data manipulation is not heard as glitches, but almost always degrades the overall listening experience.
Here are a few examples of software playback problems that I have encountered, some of which are still present in current playback software. Software that drops (discards) single samples at regular intervals to maintain system “synchronization”. Software that truncates each sample from the original file and fills the missing bit with a bit from the next sample. Software that reorders the bits in the last byte (the LSBs) of a 24 bit sample. Software that sometimes swaps bits (or whole samples) from the left and right channels. Software that has a misaligned buffer so that a large number of samples will be played back correctly but the first sample in each block will actually be from the previous block. Software that inverts the files phase during playback (sometimes randomly each time a file is played). Software that removes DC offsets from files (which can be beneficial) but does not tell you it is doing so. Software that “fills in” some of the “unused” audio spectrum with “pleasing” harmonics or noise. Software that manipulates the data in a detrimental way when features are turned on, even when those features are set to do nothing.
Otherwise the presenter was quite accurate with their streamer technical overview.
That is super interesting Dustin. One of the advantages of an Antipodes Server, is its flexibility to choose various playback scenarios.
As a lifetime ‘member’ of ROON, that is my default software. It’s my day to day.
I have also used ROON server with Squeeze Player which is usually, but not always - depending on the ROON version, better. Then I listened with all Squeeze, which does sound great, but truly miss the metadata world of ROON and it is limited to DSD64.
I have also recently played with MBD/Minimserver using JPlay. That sounded great but lacks the ROON metadata world.
My hope, once my system settles, is that ROON + Squeeze Player sounds as good as the JPlay configuration so I can enjoy the rich metadata of ROON.
What software configuration have you found sounds the best with your system?
