I would like to ask whether MSB is considering a software update for the Network Renderer V2 to support AirPlay 2.
Since the Renderer V2 is already based on a Linux network audio platform, I wonder whether native AirPlay 2 support could be added through a future software/firmware update.
The main use case I am interested in is:
Apple Music → AirPlay 2 → MSB Network Renderer V2 → MSB DAC
It would be especially useful to have native Apple Music Lossless playback without requiring an external AirPlay bridge.
I would also like to ask whether a future Renderer V2 software update could restore the OpenHome Playlist functionality that was supported by earlier versions of the Renderer software.
Could you please let me know whether these features are technically feasible and whether MSB has any plans to support them?
AirPlay 2 is based on compressed 256 kbps AAC. So it would not be lossless anyway. It would need to be based on 1st generation AirPlay 1, however that drains the apple device‘s battery if it’s not plugged into wall power.
But indeed, AirPlay 2 would be convenient. But the license is costly and would need to be amortized across a small number of devices, given MSB‘s niche position in high-end audio.
If you want to accomplish this now, buy the cheap WiiM box and then airplay to that with spdif to the MSB. Works flawlessly. I use it to airplay 2 from my AppleTV to my Cascade.
Also for what it’s worth, both Airplay 1 and 2 downsample all sources to 6-bit / 44.1 kHz
AirPlay 1 maxes out at redbook quality (44.1 kHz, 16 bit), but creates a lot of WiFi traffic through the Apple device (and battery drain, accordingly) when used with an iPhone or iPad. AirPlay 2 is using Apple’s AAC encoding in 256 kbps (which is basically MPEG-4 compression). The advantage is less WiFi traffic (audio is transmitted in bursts), but obviously at the compromise of even lesser quality.
We are working at implementing every possible feature, but it will take time for us to arrive at solutions we are happy with. A solution that works quite well now, is the USB output of your apple device.
Pairing an iPad or iPhone with a Pro USB is a fantastic solution that can be operated from the listening chair. This will allow playback from Qobuz, Apple Music, Spotify, and Youtube etc. Or, getting a casting device as @matthewk recomended.
I will check on the OpenHome functionality for you.
Thank you for the great update!
I’m very happy to hear that AirPlay 2 is being tested. I’m especially looking forward to using Apple Music directly with the Renderer.
I’m really looking forward to the next public firmware release with AirPlay 2 and OpenHome Playlist support.
Alas! That may be a bit optimistic. THe OpenHome should be coming right away, but Airplay is not ready for Beta or Public release yet. That will take longer for the rigorous testing and certifications.
As I posted, currently, you can use apple music with the USB output of your Phone or iPad to great results. This is something I do at home and both my wife and I love the results
Dear @Daniel_Francis if you consider AirPlay, will it be AirPlay 1 (i.e. 44.1/16 bit) or AirPlay 2 (compressed AAC 256 kbps)? Although the latter is more energy efficient on the sending device, I guess in the context of audiophile MSB systems one would probably prioritize SQ and go for the original AirPlay?
Just a small clarification: AirPlay 2 is not necessarily limited to AAC 256 kbps. It can also carry lossless ALAC audio.
Apple Music now has a large amount of music available in Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless, ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz up to 24-bit/192 kHz. So some albums are well beyond CD quality.
The actual resolution of course depends on the AirPlay 2 receiver and the negotiated format, but I think AirPlay 2 is definitely worth considering for a high-end MSB system.
I was referring to AirPlay 2, not Apple Music. Apple Music does indeed offer hi-res albums like Tidal and others.
My understanding is, though, that AirPlay maxes out at CD quality, and if sender and receiver are both capable of streaming AirPlay 2, it will automatically use that protocol in compressed AAC. Only exception is if the streaming app in question prescribes lossless AirPlay - which is not the case for Apple Music, no matter whether “hi-res” is selected in its app settings. The latter refers to the quality of the stream it receives from the cloud, not the output from the apple device to a speaker or headphone.
So the safest way to ensure lossless AirPlay 1 is used is if a sender or receiver only can do AirPlay 1. hence my question to implement AirPlay 1 in the MSB Network Renderer instead of AirPlay 2.
AirPlay 2 itself supports both lossy AAC and lossless ALAC, including 24-bit/48 kHz lossless audio. The actual format used by Apple Music depends on the sender, application, and current Apple implementation. Current observations with Apple Music on iPhone/iPad/macOS indicate that AirPlay 2 Buffered Audio is typically AAC at 48 kHz, but there are also AirPlay 2 cases using ALAC at 24-bit/48 kHz（https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync/discussions/2007?utm_source=chatgpt.com）
The Network input is ever evolving and I hope to see one on every MSB DAC someday. It is a really great sounding source as well, a high value choice for setup.
@Jonathan_Gullman is supervising the Renderer direction, he will have to give you feedback on where things are headed. Good to have your feedback though.
