# 2nd hand Reference vs new Premier **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [September 6, 2026, 8:18am UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420 "2026-09-06T08:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 8:18am UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/1 "2026-09-06T08:18:15Z")
Hi all, thinking to upgrade my current DAC and I have a couple of MSB options: - a 2022 Reference with powerbase (and Femto 33) - a new Premier I’m wondering if any forum member had the chance to directly compare these two and what are the impressions. Obviously the Premier being new has a better chance to receive updates and may keep the value better than the other, but I am more interested into the sound quality (I am not sure there’s much difference in terms of files type, DSD, etc). Cheers, Paul ---
**Author:** ![Nicoben](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/forum.msbtechnology.com/nicoben/32/870_2.png) [@Nicoben](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/Nicoben)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 9:02am UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/2 "2026-09-06T09:02:52Z")
Hi Paul, Having been able to compare the two side-by-side under the same conditions, if the system and room set up are up to standard, it sounds just like the Premier—but better in every way: a slightly wider soundstage, greater height, width, and depth, richer timbres, and greater microdynamics… everything is the same, but better. And it’s still possible to find a used Digital Director later on to really drive the point home. From my perspective, the Premier won’t see any upgrades likely to change any of that, and I suppose it will be a new model replacing the Premier at some point that will bring to market a brand-new unit capable of competing with the secondhand Reference—whose value is dropping day by day due to the arrival of the Cascade, which is better than a Select, a model whose value has also been driven down significantly by now. Cheers, Nicolas. ---
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 9:12am UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/3 "2026-09-06T09:12:07Z")
> [@Nicoben](#): > > Select Thank you Nicolas, very clear and useful advice. I think indeed that the Ref could be a good pick. I am potentially upgrading from a Bricasti M1 SE and given the cost of changing I want the improvement to be as material as possible (otherwise I can stay with what I have…). Digital changes so quickly…not easy to decide where to draw a line on the upgrade ---
**Author:** ![Lu62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b77776/32.png) [@Lu62](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/Lu62)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 2:47pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/4 "2026-09-06T14:47:02Z")
Reference. And by some margin for me. Best DAC I have ever had, before the Cascade arrived. ---
**Author:** ![Bones13](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/forum.msbtechnology.com/bones13/32/244_2.png) [@Bones13](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/Bones13)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 3:03pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/5 "2026-09-06T15:03:02Z")
I upgraded from a Bricasti M12 to a Premier DAC with Digital Director a few years ago. Big upgrade! Whichever you choose, you will enjoy. Economics aside, adding the Digital Director into the mix is yet another game changer. Be sure it’s in your plan down the road, whichever DAC you end up with. Part of the reason for declining resale value is that with the Cascade, and more recently, the Palisade, coming on the market has sparked trade ins to dealers of previous models. It’s a very good time to shop the used market for still very good MSB products. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Gerard](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/Gerard)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 3:59pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/6 "2026-09-06T15:59:07Z")
The problem with all these luxury items is that if you are waiting for the most economic deal you probably will ending up with nothing. I bought the Premier + DD recently, never connected the piece, returned it, and I’m now waiting for the Palisade. Is this a wise decision? MSB and others for sure will say: yes! I hope so, the only thing that certainly is true is that my wallet will shrink more. Btw, no regrets at all so far. We make decisions every day. If you can afford MSB gear, you’re living in the lucky part of the world. Let’s be thankful for that, either with a Reference DAC, a Premier or a… Palisade. ---
**Author:** ![crwilli](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/forum.msbtechnology.com/crwilli/32/824_2.png) [@crwilli](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/crwilli)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 8:20pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/7 "2026-09-06T20:20:52Z")
Although I have not direct experience, I am pretty sure the Reference is the better DAC. The one variable you may want to consider is if there is any chance you may want a Palisade or Cascade in the not to distance future. I think the Premier is still eligible for the MSB trade-in offer whereas the Reference is not. Food for thought ---
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 10:05pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/8 "2026-09-06T22:05:23Z")
thank you Lu. Which DAC did you have before the Ref? ---
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 10:08pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/9 "2026-09-06T22:08:07Z")
That’s a very similar situation to the one I am in right now. Thanks for the advice. Sounds like the Ref is the unanimous choice. If I do the upgrade, should clearly be for it; and then the DD. ---
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 10:09pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/10 "2026-09-06T22:09:30Z")
yes, you’re right. Unfortunately in this expensive hobby of ours, things are seldom definitive. We are lucky ---
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 10:10pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/11 "2026-09-06T22:10:51Z")
yes, I got an offer for a Premier with trade-in offer and the Reference without offer. What would go out of my pockets would not be too different (few k$ more for the Ref) ---
**Author:** ![crwilli](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/forum.msbtechnology.com/crwilli/32/824_2.png) [@crwilli](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/crwilli)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 10:15pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/12 "2026-09-06T22:15:45Z")
Sorry, I am not sure I fully understand your post. The Premier provides the option to trade-in for a Palisade/Cascade right? The Ref does not. My earlier point is to consider the Premier if you have any inkling you might upgrade to one of those models. ---
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 10:31pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/13 "2026-09-06T22:31:22Z")
Yes, and I have also been offered a trade in for my Bricasti DAC vs the Premier, but not vs the Ref because the latter is 2nd hand. From there - i.e. owning a Premier or Reference - will see if there’s an option to trade up in few years. ---
**Author:** ![crwilli](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/forum.msbtechnology.com/crwilli/32/824_2.png) [@crwilli](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/crwilli)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2026, 11:24pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/14 "2026-09-06T23:24:57Z")
Good luck. No bad choices in that group! ---
**Author:** ![Lu62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b77776/32.png) [@Lu62](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/Lu62)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2026, 6:29am UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/15 "2026-09-07T06:29:29Z")
Hi, before the Reference I had a Premier. Before that I had a Discrete. I now have a Cascade. And I loved them all. Going back to the topic, I have made a few different posts about the MSB DACs I have had: Yes the Premier was the best “value for money” in the MSB line up in my opinion, but the Reference was indisputably - for me - a better DAC. The Cascade is the next level (so will be a Palisade). > [@In praise of the Premier DAC …](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/in-praise-of-the-premier-dac/519): > > As per title, I really loved my time with the Premier DAC. I started my MSB relationship with a Discrete, a lovely lovely DAC, but the Premier was indisputably a big step forward. I now have a Reference, which is yet another big step forward (and I have also demoed the Cascade…damn lol), but the Premier has probably been the one DAC that has surprised me the most: in my humble opinion it is the best value for money DAC of the entire MSB line and really so easy to fall in love with slight_smile … > [@To be happy](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/to-be-happy/664): > > Looking around, at shows, at friend’s, on the internet etc, I realise that I must have a very simple ‘high-ish end’ system compared to many others: since I have decided that thanks to today’s technological advances streaming was really all I needed to enjoy my music the way I like (my first MSB DAC, The Discrete, was the first DAC responsible for that, since for the first time digital sound equalled my pretty good vinyl rig sound quality) all I have now is a four box system (three actually, beca… > [@The (MSB) digital sound](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/the-msb-digital-sound/1197): > > [[MSB Cascade DAC S202 power amp Bayz Courante speakers Pink Faun streamer Omega Audio Concepts cables] ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vevC5hPli9w) The sound of our systems (and the music we favour) and how much we like it is indeed something very personal. Each one of us has his own preferences. Some like the vintage sound (great), some like valves (beautiful), many still enjoy analogue (lovely). I went through it all, and enjoyed it all, in my many years into this hobby - and passion for music. In the last four years however… ---
**Author:** ![BUDDYMAN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@BUDDYMAN](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/BUDDYMAN)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2026, 1:33pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/16 "2026-09-07T13:33:09Z")
Without a doubt, the Ref DAC easily beats the Premier DAC, as MSB’s previous product line positioning placed the former higher than the latter. - ---
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2026, 10:17pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/17 "2026-09-07T22:17:39Z")
thank you! interesting reading ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Francis](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/forum.msbtechnology.com/daniel_francis/32/681_2.png) [@Daniel\_Francis](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/Daniel_Francis)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2026, 3:27pm UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/18 "2026-09-08T15:27:57Z")
> [@oldvinyllover68](#): > > Sounds like the Ref is the unanimous choice. Agreed! And, getting it at the second hand price means you can always resell it close to your purchase price if you ever feel inclined to try out the Palisade DAC. The Reference is the superior performance choice. If you want to try out a Director for the Reference, I am sure the used market will be good for that as well. We do have refurbished units from time to time. I hope you enjoy whichever DAC you pick! Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![oldvinyllover68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@oldvinyllover68](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/u/oldvinyllover68)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2026, 10:15am UTC](https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/2nd-hand-reference-vs-new-premier/1420/19 "2026-09-09T10:15:25Z")
thank you Daniel, that’s a nice thing of second hand units…less or sometimes no depreciation